MAN Purchase and Deliveries

Bus 400 · January 10, 2009, 11:20:29 AM

I have scanned the article from "The Canberra Times" (10/01/09) it can be found at: http://s550.photobucket.com/albums/ii421/JulianHamstead/?action=view&current=IMG_0002.jpg

Buzz Killington · January 10, 2009, 11:41:01 AM

Thanks for the scan!

I think we might just turn this into the thread for discussion/delivery of the 14.5's and the next batch of MANs

We've now got an article in the news blog.

Irisbus Rider · January 10, 2009, 01:26:45 PM

It'll be a while, ha ha, at least a year.

Buzz Killington · January 10, 2009, 01:29:45 PM

Mid-year according to the article but yeah, could be longer..

Bus 400 · January 10, 2009, 02:19:58 PM

Just wondering what do you mean with the MAN deliveries in this topic heading?

Buzz Killington · January 10, 2009, 02:23:26 PM

ACTION are reportedly purchasing:

27 x 14.5m's (Scania?)
100 x MAN (18.310?)

they will then be delivered to ACTION..

Bus 400 · January 10, 2009, 02:25:30 PM

Aha, sounds good that MAN have the 100 bus contract. Would this order of 100 buses be onew of the biggest on off orders?

Snorzac · January 10, 2009, 03:46:40 PM

That article mentions clean diesel. Which would more than likely mean Adblue, am I right.

The Love Guru · January 10, 2009, 03:53:04 PM

No, MAN don't have a SCR engine in the buses, they use EGR.

Snorzac · January 10, 2009, 03:57:56 PM

The article was about the 14.5s but they wouldn't get Adblue for 27 buses.

The Love Guru · January 10, 2009, 04:13:51 PM

Scania also use EGR, so neither of the mentioned chassis require adbule. However, with recent developments in the heavy diesel sector, the use of adblue is inevitible.

CanberraTransport · January 10, 2009, 04:39:30 PM

They're phasing out artics - that's a shame. But the new buses look alright as well.

Busnerd · January 10, 2009, 07:55:39 PM

Just alright?

Have you been on one?

They have lots of power (assuming we're getting 310's) and they are just overall really nice buses!

Scania's are meant to be diesel, don't let gas Scania's make you think they're crap.

Buzz Killington · January 11, 2009, 10:34:48 AM

i dont give a crap what we're getting really, i love our old artics and i hope they retain them for some purpose

Irisbus Rider · January 11, 2009, 02:18:12 PM

Artics should stay on school services, but we'll be lucky if that even eventuates.

I'm not sure if the use of AdBlue will be inevitable, seeing as Scania just released a Euro V vehicle, EGR technology is rapidly increasing.
But I strongly disagree with Scanias way of achieving their emissions target, small engine, large turbo. That just doesn't work, especialy if the turbo experiences mechanical difficulties, or is underpowered.

The Love Guru · January 11, 2009, 07:48:35 PM

ALL of the major engine manufacturers have stopped development of EGR engines in favor of SCR. I'm sure Scania are in the same boat, as it would be a major gamble to go against what the R&D of all of your competitors has found.

Irisbus Rider · January 12, 2009, 05:23:44 AM

Yeah? In that case, you're right, it is inevitable!

I sya to ACTION: Stop putting off the inevitable, just do it! Get AdBlue.

Barry Drive · January 12, 2009, 12:46:17 PM

Quote from: Mr Snrub on January 10, 2009, 02:23:26 PM
ACTION are reportedly purchasing:

27 x 14.5m's (Scania?)
100 x MAN (18.310?)

they will then be delivered to ACTION..

On what evidence do you base this assertion? The Canberra Times article mentions 100 buses only (as does anything else I could find about this topic for the Wikipedia page). It also says that Tom Elliot would not comment until contracts were completed - meaning the contracts are not yet completed.

I can believe that there will be 27 x 14.5m's (most likely Scania) to replace the MkI body artics and 73 standards. From the article it looks like both bus types would be delievered at the same time with 5 to 10 14.5s in the first year and 15 to 20 standards.

(Ryan - there was an error in the blog entry which said the 14.5 are $100000 less than a standard bus instead of more than.)

The Love Guru · January 12, 2009, 03:01:09 PM

I agree with you there Martin, 100 buses over the next 4 years was what the budget was based on. So we can expect 27 14.5's and 73 rigids to be delivered BY 2012, not from 2012 as previously stated. The ACT govt has a policy of replacing buses at a rate of 25 per year at the moment.

Busnerd · January 12, 2009, 04:09:27 PM

I don't know what to believe, some people say the 27 14.5's are included in the 100 new buses, however some people say the 14.5's are in addition to 100 MAN's

Irisbus Rider · January 13, 2009, 05:22:09 AM

The 14.5ms are included in the order, they always have been, even when it was going to be 11 artics and 89 rigids, it was always included in the order.

Busnerd · January 13, 2009, 03:27:45 PM

Thats what I thought but some people are saying they are additional...however it's not in the budget so I don't know

Buzz Killington · January 13, 2009, 04:45:16 PM

The article and my post were just going on what I'd been told. I'll edit the news article.

Bus 400 · January 21, 2009, 09:39:00 PM

Does anyone know if these new buses will have the rear desto number thingy?

Buzz Killington · January 22, 2009, 04:05:38 PM

One would assume so

Snorzac · January 31, 2009, 12:32:02 PM

Quote from: Busnerd on January 10, 2009, 07:55:39 PM
Scania's are meant to be diesel, don't let gas Scania's make you think they're crap.

The 14.5m Scanias in Melbourne absolutely hoon, they are great fun to ride!

Irisbus Rider · February 01, 2009, 07:32:15 AM

The 14.5s for Metro, and even their rigids are simply fantastic buses, fast, smooth (I know!) and generally, a comfortable ride.

Snorzac · April 02, 2009, 10:13:01 PM

Well a source on facebook has told me the first 14.5 is at this stage due around June/July.

Irisbus Rider · April 02, 2009, 10:15:14 PM

Wow, thats a few months.

Interesting, I've heard that the tenders are just taking forever, which consequently might leave us waiting in limbo a bit longer. Not sure if anoyne has even been awarded the contract yet......

Bus 400 · April 02, 2009, 10:20:45 PM

You may have better chances then me. All contracts can be searched under http://www.contractsregister.act.gov.au but all I get is a blank screen.

Also under the article I scanned, it states the first batch are due in July/August & will include 5-10 of them.

Irisbus Rider · April 03, 2009, 09:45:44 AM

But, remember, what ACTION say and what happens are completely different things.

Buzz Killington · April 29, 2009, 07:12:55 PM

Today's Canberra Times states that 24 14.5's will be purchased, with the first four set to arrive in October. The tender for 100 buses has also been completed.

Bus 400 · April 29, 2009, 07:15:29 PM

The 24 14.5's are a part of that 100 new buses.

Irisbus Rider · May 01, 2009, 01:04:25 PM

24? Thats just simply pathetic! What happened to the original 27?! Far out man........

Busnerd · May 01, 2009, 04:21:39 PM

Why must they always get an uneven number!

So they would be... 390 - 413!!

What, they couldn't get one more so that the mans are 415 - 515

route56 · May 20, 2009, 12:48:09 AM

How many people can get on a 14.5 compared to an articulated bus ?

Buzz Killington · May 20, 2009, 06:36:45 PM

I believe its slightly less than an artic, so i think it would be around 55-60 seated.

Sir Pompously · May 21, 2009, 12:52:49 PM

CDC's CC Bodied Scania K310UB 14.5m are 56 seaters. Same with their Volgren's.

Brisbane Transports is 56 (54 + 2 Wheelchair, which I believe is included in the above CDC total aswell), with a total capacity of 98.

Irisbus Rider · May 25, 2009, 12:00:20 PM

Articulated buses can carry far more, particularly when it comes to standing capacity. 14.5m buses are just Artics they can't afford.

Busnerd · May 25, 2009, 04:15:27 PM

You can't say that...

Each type of bus has it's own features and advantages/disadvantages.

If you want the capacity, then buy artics, if you just want a slightly increased capacity but more for commuters than students/charters then get 14.5's.

Bus 400 · June 11, 2009, 01:41:14 PM

I have been informed that someone made a HUGE stuff up with the 14.5 Scania's. Apparently the mechanics know that the 14.5 buses can't get around Canberra roundabouts. So these buses will be stuck of Redex1 1 & 2 or 300 services.

It must of been the same person who ordered the gas MAN's that just fit in the workshop & don't fit in the bus wash & that was after it was altered for the Scanias which couldn't fit in the bus wash to start with.

So maybe (just maybe) ACTION might have to pick up new artics & hopefully we get the MAN artic. As they are beautiful & have a few wis bang gadgets that no other ACTION MAN has. But most likely that won't happen for a while as these new artics cost $750,000 each & have a capacity of about 110-120 people.

The Love Guru · June 11, 2009, 04:30:35 PM

Quote from: MaxiZac on May 25, 2009, 04:15:27 PM
You can't say that...

Each type of bus has it's own features and advantages/disadvantages.

If you want the capacity, then buy artics, if you just want a slightly increased capacity but more for commuters than students/charters then get 14.5's.

He can say that, and he DID!

He's right too, the 14.5m rigid is not a replacement for an artic.

Buzz Killington · June 11, 2009, 05:01:22 PM

Quote from: TP 3000 on June 11, 2009, 01:41:14 PM
So these buses will be stuck of Redex1 1 & 2 or 300 services.

If they can't get around roundabouts, they won't be on any routes at all.

I assume you mean the smaller suburban roundabouts - for which the 313, 318 and 319 travel through.

Not to mention the rather small roundabout at Cameron & Chandler Sts..

belcodriver · June 11, 2009, 05:48:18 PM

Quote from: Buzz Killington on June 11, 2009, 05:01:22 PM
If they can't get around roundabouts, they won't be on any routes at all.

I assume you mean the smaller suburban roundabouts - for which the 313, 318 and 319 travel through.

Not to mention the rather small roundabout at Cameron & Chandler Sts..

It's rather smallness is why the island is 2-level, so large vehicles can just drive over the 1st level.

Sir Pompously · June 11, 2009, 11:55:13 PM

Quote from: TP 3000 on June 11, 2009, 01:41:14 PM
I have been informed that someone made a HUGE stuff up with the 14.5 Scania's. Apparently the mechanics know that the 14.5 buses can't get around Canberra roundabouts. So these buses will be stuck of Redex1 1 & 2 or 300 services.

It must of been the same person who ordered the gas MAN's that just fit in the workshop & don't fit in the bus wash & that was after it was altered for the Scanias which couldn't fit in the bus wash to start with.

So maybe (just maybe) ACTION might have to pick up new artics & hopefully we get the MAN artic. As they are beautiful & have a few wis bang gadgets that no other ACTION MAN has. But most likely that won't happen for a while as these new artics cost $750,000 each & have a capacity of about 110-120 people.

14.5's, especially the Tag Axle version, are actually quite versatile. From what I understand, and have been told the 14.5 Tag axles are almost like driving a standard rigid and can get around most obsticles. If they can get around some of the stuff Sydney has to offer, I am sure Canberra's roads will be a piece of cake. Have only been on one Hillsbus one, and they seem to turn qith much ease, riding in the rear of one it almost feels as though you 'glide' around the corner.

As for the height of the MAN's, you can blame CC For that. The EvoII body is alot higher than your standard CB60, add the Pod ontop of that and it is quite a tall vehicle. I do not know of one CC Gas Rigid that has a recessed Gas Pod, that seems to be a Volgren feature, however we know ACTION decided not to touch the CR228L body.

Artics will probably be a long while away. If they are purchasing 14.5's to replace artics, that can almost be seen as a death sentence as the artics are well used on school and charter services which on a good day will be packed to the rafters (Thankyou 7, I just plugged a show for you). They are also used on the well patronised Xpresso routes, which also can be quite jammed in depending on which run it is. I Can see ACTION Keeping the artics for a while longer, if only used for School and Charter/special event's services (That is my own speculation, and we will find out soon enough what ACTION will do). They can always double head the run's, however the cost of paying a driver and fuel cost's for two vehicle's may be outweighed by the ease of use the artic offers. The 14.5's are a good idea for something like the Intertown, or the proposed RedEx routes where capacity no longer is able to sustain an artic (Unless it is Skyfire, or a similar event).

Bus 400 · June 12, 2009, 12:03:21 AM

Also while someone else is paying to look after the buses, they should use the hell out of them. But I have also been "informed" that the PR180.s MkII's are due to go first. It has to do with something that was changed from the MkI's to MkII's & this has made them of poorer quality. But I have noticed that the bendy bits on the MkII's is alot more torn then on the MkI's & I have seen every single artic at Tuggeranong Depot.

All of this was explained to me that the mechanics tell the starters/shift makers what bus type can go on what run & they know that the 14.5 buses are unable to go on most roundabouts in Canberra. But every bus should be able to do every single run.

Snorzac · June 12, 2009, 07:26:57 AM

The Mk Is will go first because they are all fucked. None of them go well at all and they are the oldest buses in the fleet.

Sir Pompously · June 12, 2009, 11:00:30 AM

Quote from: TP 3000 on June 12, 2009, 12:03:21 AM
Also while someone else is paying to look after the buses, they should use the hell out of them. But I have also been "informed" that the PR180.s MkII's are due to go first. It has to do with something that was changed from the MkI's to MkII's & this has made them of poorer quality. But I have noticed that the bendy bits on the MkII's is alot more torn then on the MkI's & I have seen every single artic at Tuggeranong Depot.

All of this was explained to me that the mechanics tell the starters/shift makers what bus type can go on what run & they know that the 14.5 buses are unable to go on most roundabouts in Canberra. But every bus should be able to do every single run.

AFAIK, there is no difference between the MkI and MkII Artic's apart from the installation of Saydair Seating and an Alcatel Flip Dot desto.

They have had 1 14.5 demonstrator at Belconnen Depot for a few hours, so I don't know how they would be able to base any fact to the claim they won't get around our roundabouts. They are probably confusing the Tag Axle vehicles we are getting with the standard 14.5m. Tag Axle vehicles are designed to give the same turn that any standard rigid does, and as I said are more versatile than your average 14.5. The only roundabouts of concern I can really see are the ones in Wanniassa, which have the curved islands to slow you down. However, if an artic can get through them I am very sure a tag axle 14.5 will be able to do it.

The Love Guru · June 12, 2009, 04:03:48 PM

All 14.5s have Tag Axles, ACTION's are to have steerable Tag axles fitted. Tag axle is just a term used for an unpowered axle.

Irisbus Rider · June 12, 2009, 07:37:34 PM

Quote from: TP 3000 on June 12, 2009, 12:03:21 AM
All of this was explained to me that the mechanics tell the starters/shift makers what bus type can go on what run & they know that the 14.5 buses are unable to go on most roundabouts in Canberra. But every bus should be able to do every single run.

*shakes head*
There are so many reasons why that comment is incorrect, not even worth trying.

As for the 180.2s, thats a worry, but wait and see, as you should know by now, 'Depot rumours' are easily spread, usually incorrect and shouldn't be believed.
Although, could be correct, Ansair may have changed their construction techniques, as it was the last Ansair bus ACTION received, so we can't compare it to any newer Ansair bodies.