94 new Battery Electric Buses

[Barry Drive]

Chris Steel has announced 94 further electric buses.

4 will be Custom Denning Elements - for Belconnen Depot in late 2023.

The other 90 will be Yutongs for Tuggeranong or Woden Depots for delivery by 2026.

Although Woden Depot is intended to be ready by late 2024, the delivery date will depend on when the electric infrastructure upgrade is finalised.

https://the-riotact.com/government-seals-deal-for-90-new-electric-buses-for-canberra/666581

[Barry Drive]

The other 90 will be Yutongs for Tuggeranong or Woden Depots for delivery by 2026.

Although Woden Depot is intended to be ready by late 2024, the delivery date will depend on when the electric infrastructure upgrade is finalised.

The contract with VDI (Yutong) has been published. There is very little useful information - specifications and delivery schedule have been deemed "Confidential".

What is known is that the total contract price is $83.448m for 90 buses - not including charging equipment.

Without further information, have to assume that delivery is planned for mid/late 2024 to 2027.

[triumph]

If the contract has been entered into, it is hard to conceive of any actual commercial confidence in withholding a delivery schedule or the contract (as opposed to manufacturer's) specifications. There may be a case for withholding some manufacturer specification details revealed only in confidence in the tender.
Looks like the Government wants to keep delivery schedule secret so the citizens have no grounds to criticise over 'late' deliveries. A reprehensible politically driven decision to over-rule transparency?

[Barry Drive]

I'm not totally disagreeing, however:

Looks like the Government wants to keep delivery schedule secret so the citizens have no grounds to criticise over 'late' deliveries. A reprehensible politically driven decision to over-rule transparency?

there is nothing to suggest that it was "the Government" who wanted to keep the delivery schedule confidential. The contract further states that the Government Procurement Act permits information to be deemed to be confidential where "(it) has a commercial value that would be, or could reasonably be expected to be, destroyed or diminished if the information were disclosed."

There are no grounds for information to be withheld for political reasons as suggested above.

In any case, while useful, the delivery schedules are almost never adhered to.

[triumph]

...
In any case, while useful, the delivery schedules are almost never adhered to.

Thus you have answered the probable reason for secrecy of the 'delivery schedule', but hardly justified under transparency.

[Barry Drive]

90 will be Yutongs for Tuggeranong or Woden Depots for delivery by 2026.

Although Woden Depot is intended to be ready by late 2024, the delivery date will depend on when the electric infrastructure upgrade is finalised.

I found some additional information from the Hansard of ACT Question Times

The electrical upgrade at Tuggeranong Depot is expected "mid 2024" and will install 25 additional chargers - which will service up to 50 buses.

The eventual electric bus allocation will be 4 at Belconnen, 62 at Tuggeranong and 40 at Woden.

A separate question revealed that Woden is expected to have 80 buses when it opens (although it has capacity for around 100). Whether they intend Woden to have 40 electric & 40 diesel at opening is not known.

So all this tells us for certain is that Yutong deliveries can be expected from mid 2024 and that each depot may be transferring 40 buses to Woden Depot when it opens.

[triumph]

Note the linked item only quotes weekday utilisation. Does this confirm there is little or no use at weekends? This seems quite contrary to the much promoted emission reductions, in respect of which the electric buses should be used intensively.

2 and 6 charging units for 4 and 12 buses? What is a 'charging unit'? Is it a dual outlet device capable of charging 2 buses simultaneously? Otherwise, to charge consecutively suggests some restraint on availability for service and thus emissions reduction benefit.

[Barry Drive]

What is a 'charging unit'? Is it a dual outlet device capable of charging 2 buses simultaneously?

Yes. Tuggeranong Depot uses six "ABB Terra 184 CC" chargers. Each unit can supply 90 kW DC to two buses simultaneously.

It is not yet known what will be installed at Belconnen Depot, but I'd expect they'd use the same charging equipment.

[L94UBbusfan]

The electrical upgrade at Tuggeranong Depot is expected "mid 2024" and will install 25 additional chargers - which will service up to 50 buses.

It's now June 2024, 5 Yutongs (812-816) out of the 90 bus order have now been delivered, but only 1 (813) is in service (as of June 2024). This seems to be implying the additional chargers with the electrical upgrade at Tuggeranong depot hasn't gone ahead yet. It is pretty much mid 2024, do we have anymore information about when this upgrade with more chargers will go ahead?

[Barry Drive]

Well no, that doesn't imply such a thing.

I might have to re-check Hansard (or else someone in the Assembly may need to ask the minister) - the "electrical upgrade" currently in progress involves a high voltage cable connection from Athllon Dr substation to the Tuggeranong Depot. My understanding is that this has not yet been completed.

Once that cable is ready, the next stage involves upgrading the grid at Tuggeranong Depot and then installing new chargers. Despite what has been said previously in the Assembly, there has been no tender issued to date for this next step.

The ACT Budget will be delivered later this month. We may get some more details and timelines from this - or from the subsequent "estimates" process.

In the interim, they may start juggling buses onto the chargers, even though it's not ideal.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

progress involves a high voltage cable connection from Athllon Dr substation to the Tuggeranong Depo

Is that what all that crap up and down the cycleway is about?

[L94UBbusfan]

In the interim, they may start juggling buses onto the chargers, even though it's not ideal.

I wonder just how many buses they can juggle on the current chargers considering the new Yutongs seem to be arriving at a steady rate? Or will they just keep them out of service until there is sufficient charging?

[Barry Drive]

The information I referred to above was actually from a question on notice which was answered by Chris Steel in July 2023.

Current plans are to stage the necessary works to install 25 chargers initially and 100 chargers eventually at the Tuggeranong Depot to coincide with the completion of the recently announced feeder augmentation works being undertaken by Evo Energy. Transport Canberra is aiming to have 25 chargers installed by mid-2024 and the installation of a total of 100 chargers undertaken as the diesel bus fleet at the Tuggeranong depot is replaced. 

The information about a tender needing to be issued for the installation of additional chargers at Tuggeranong may have come from a PTCBR public meeting, because there is no mention of it on Hansard.

ACT Budget is this week - it might provide some detail as to when this work will be undertaken.

But maybe the plan has been adjusted to wait until Woden Depot is operational before major works commence at Tuggeranong. It would certainly be easier to rip up parts of the depot when there are fewer buses in the way. In the interim, perhaps they can install a few temporary chargers - like they did with the previous trial buses.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

819 passed me on a 71 earlier today but when I checked anytrip, it had no info on it. That's not going be particularly helpful if they're all going to be like that.

[Barry Drive]

I thought it was established by now that there will be no NXTBUS fitted to any new Yutong. (3G shut-down is less than 4 weeks away, so there's little point in doing so.)

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Surely anytrip can use another gps tracking system thought right? I'd imagine the other states around Australia are not using NXTBUS.

[L94UBbusfan]

Surely anytrip can use another gps tracking system thought right? I'd imagine the other states around Australia are not using NXTBUS.

The new MyWay+ system will to the best of my knowledge will have a new GPS system installed which will be a lot more advanced that NXTBUS. The switchover to the new system is only a few months away and while it's very inconvenient for right now, there is little to no point having an entirely new system that will be replaced in a couple of months. I thought the same thing when I couldn't find the Element 2s and 817 on a 26 a couple of weeks ago.

Tuggeranong also now has 16 electric buses and only 6 dual chargers, with new Yutong's arriving at a steady pace, will additional temporary chargers need to be used in the short term?

[Bus 400]

Surely anytrip can use another gps tracking system thought right? I'd imagine the other states around Australia are not using NXTBUS.

Other cities may be using the a program from the same developer of NXTBUS. But all their updates are in the back end, so the public wouldn't notice. 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Alright, back to topic now though.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I tend to skip over the lightrail/electric chatter (probably why I forgot the above too). Was there any mention of implementing of recharging stations at the bus layovers (specifically ones with surrounding fences)?

[triumph]

.....
Tuggeranong also now has 16 electric buses and only 6 dual chargers, with new Yutong's arriving at a steady pace, will additional temporary chargers need to be used in the short term?

Make that 20 now and shortly 21 electric buses at Tuggeranong.

Surely some Forum member actually knows/observes and can clarify what is the current (sorry) charging strategy.

New Yutongs are arriving very regularly so charging demand can only increase.

[Barry Drive]

Two things we've learned this week:

(1) the contract with Yutong was amended to bring forward the delivery of 10 buses due to the delayed BusTechs. Although there was a contract variation, the revised delivery schedule is also confidential.

Presumably these 10 buses are 812 - 821

(2) by December, there should be 46 electric buses (so an additional 20: 822 - 841). My guess is that these will go straight to Woden Depot and might not see service until 2025. (And as revealed during the budget, there will be a further 10 by June 2025.)

[L94UBbusfan]

Make that 20 now and shortly 21 electric buses at Tuggeranong.

Surely some Forum member actually knows/observes and can clarify what is the current (sorry) charging strategy.

New Yutongs are arriving very regularly so charging demand can only increase.

With the entry into service of 824, there are now 22 Yutongs in service at Tuggeranong, and with no signs of deliveries slowing down, this question really needs to be asked again. Unless additional temporary chargers or some form of electricity upgrade has been completed, then these 22 buses (soon to be 23) will be charging on just 6 dual chargers, which is surely exceeding the demand for charging. Does anyone know how this is being handled at the moment?

[triumph]

I frequently see electric buses up to 811 out and about and by comparison, rarely see 812 on. Have been wondering about this for some time.
Purely subjective, but an inference could be drawn that the more recent electrics in service are having charging access/charge rationed. 

[L94UBbusfan]

It is worth nothing that the original 12 Yutongs are leased, not outright owned like the new Yutongs, so perhaps 811 below are being used more to get the best usage out of them before the lease expires, and since there is a lack of charging infrastructure for the time being, the new Yutongs aren't being used at much. Just a theory though, I doubt this is the real reason

[Busnerd]

I'd be interested in the charging times, most electric cars can charge to 100% in around an hour - 90 minutes using something as slow as a 50kW DC Fast charger, I am unsure of the capacity of the Yutongs and if they use a single battery pack or dual packs (meaning you could charge on two chargers at once for each battery pack and therefore charge a larger amount of batteries at the same time.) But it is possibly if they rotated them you could charge them all in a few hours, although I believe TC just park the buses overnight and charge them overnight rather than rotate buses throughout the day.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

822 passed me before I hopped on 818 yesterday. Must say they look so much nicer without all that "1 of 108 or whatever new buses" crap on them.

[triumph]

I frequently see electric buses up to 811 out and about and by comparison, rarely see 812 on. Have been wondering about this for some time.
...

Today was different, rode 814 and saw 811, 816, 818, 813, 812, 810. So two from older tranche and five from newer tranche. Of the five, I had only identified 812 previously.

[L94UBbusfan]

Today was different, rode 814 and saw 811, 816, 818, 813, 812, 810. So two from older tranche and five from newer tranche. Of the five, I had only identified 812 previously.

I spotted 815 and a Yutong from the first batch (didn't get a fleet number) when I was out on Monday. What I did notice in the Gungahlin area were 3 out of the 4 Element 2s (didn't see 750.) Tomorrow I am planning to go out so I will keep an eye out for any of the new Yutongs. Hopefully ride one too.

[L94UBbusfan]

Tomorrow I am planning to go out so I will keep an eye out for any of the new Yutongs. Hopefully ride one too.

Well that was interesting. I saw 812, 815, 818 and 820 as well as one at Tuggeranong (didn't get the number, but it didn't have the "I'm an Electric bus" stuff on it) however I didn't see a single Yutong from the original 12 today.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

I saw 823 in Woden this evening on an R4. Funny enough had I waited an extra 5-10 minutes at Wanniassa I would've gotten it. 

[triumph]

From an item on MyWay+ in today's Canberra Times, it is stated that there are some older buses due for retirement in the next few months as new electric buses are received. So this implies no extra buses, just one for one. Nor is the quantity or class of older buses to be retired indicated.
As Yutongs are turning up at around 3 per month it might be expected that over the next 6 months there will be another 18 or more retirements.

[Snorzac]

Highly doubt it, currently Belconnen has 10 electrics with only 4 chargers, Tuggeranong has 25(?) electrics with only 12 chargers, at some point unless they obtain temporary chargers they are going to have to stop putting Yutongs into service and commence storing them until Woden depot opens. I would suggest that point be very soon

[L94UBbusfan]

Highly doubt it, currently Belconnen has 10 electrics with only 4 chargers, Tuggeranong has 25(?) electrics with only 12 chargers, at some point unless they obtain temporary chargers they are going to have to stop putting Yutongs into service and commence storing them until Woden depot opens. I would suggest that point be very soon

I thought they had reached that point already, but here we are. Surely there will need to be some form of extra charging soon, especially considering the rate of which Yutongs are arriving.

[Cutepattern1098]

I thought they had reached that point already, but here we are. Surely there will need to be some form of extra charging soon, especially considering the rate of which Yutongs are arriving.

A cheeky solution would be negotiating with CDC Canberra to use their Yutong chargers when they're not in use for the CDC fleet of three electric Yutongs.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

That would be a helpful solution, but I don't think they'd want to repeatedly remove/reinstall the bike racks every time they sent them over to get charged

[Bus 400]

Just get the drivers to take the buses home every night.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

So if a E-scooter can burn a house down, would an electric bus do the whole neighbourhood?

[Bus 400]

We're going down that rabbit hole & off topic. 

How many e-scooters & EV vehicles are there in Canberra? How many have caught alight? 

It would be no different to the 2 diesel Irisbuses caught alight in recent years. 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Bruh it was a joke

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Woah, saw 829 closely followed by 830 this evening. Had no idea we were up to those numbers already. Still not bothered by the numbers like I thought I would be, will have to see once we get back to the 900s.

Kinda off topic, but if and when the 3rd-party tracking recommences, will the 20% of buses not having the new stuff be visible too?

[triumph]

Woah, saw 829 closely followed by 830 this evening. Had no idea we were up to those numbers already. Still not bothered by the numbers like I thought I would be, will have to see once we get back to the 900s.

Kinda off topic, but if and when the 3rd-party tracking recommences, will the 20% of buses not having the new stuff be visible too?

A regular perusal o Fleet Wiki headlines and monthly changes will help you keep up to date.

I wouldn't be holding my breath re 3rd party tracking of the buses not outfitted for MyWay+. I suspect those parties would have to operate two parallel systems (and be unwilling to do so) to cover both MyWay+ functionality, and, if available, the outmoded MyWay functionality.
It might be noted that, for OH&S reasons and duress alarm response, the MyWay functions (at least those relevant) probably need to remain available whilst unequipped buses remain in service. 

[Snorzac]

⚠️ off topic reply has been deleted ⚠️