LR general discussion

[Buzz Killington]

Do hope someone for the historical record can record fleet identities for first LRV carrying balloted passengers tomorrow.
AND first public trip from EACH end on Sat.
(Dammit, I will be away so can't.)

Not sure how many were used for the ballot today, but I saw 014 on a video.

[triumph]

All trips will commence at the same time on both days so there won't be a "first vehicle" there will be 6 or more departing at the same time.

Did you mean multiple simultaneous departures from various stops as well as terminii?
Clearly, there can only be one FIRST from Alinga St and another from Gungahlin accepting the public. If other LRVs, at the same time or earlier, start accepting the public (or today, ballotted passengers) from intermediate stops then determining a true FIRST becomes problematical.

It is the historical record that is important, as it is customary in historical literature to quote the identity and departure time of vehicles providing the FIRST service (or simultaneous first services).

Also of interest would be the identities of all LRVs used today for ballotted passengers, and on Saturday for the public. This would align with the Forum practice of recording first day in service of buses (where known).

[Barry Drive]

It is my understanding that trams will be stationed at various stops and all of them will depart at exactly 9am on Saturday. So there will not be a "first" departure, there will be several.

And yes, the intention is to note which were in service on Saturday and so on until all 14 have operated public services. Maybe I need to camp out in front of the depot with binoculars and a note pad. Like a normal person would do.

(BTW, I don't see the trial passenger run as significant, historically speaking. There have been many tests and "special" runs before now - this is just another.)

[triumph]

(BTW, I don't see the trial passenger run as significant, historically speaking. There have been many tests and "special" runs before now - this is just another.)

Yes, I had wondered about this. I do think it is significant though for these reasons:
- It is the first after accreditation.
- It is first actually available to general public, though by ballot due to number limits.
- Previous runs were under non-accredited, that is system construction/development, conditions and restraints (eg hard hats, hi-via vests as mentioned in today's paper), with no opportunity for the public at large to participate.

Perhaps it is analogous to an Official Opening Run carrying VIPs.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Not sure how many were used for the ballot today, but I saw 014 on a video.

Only two would've been used, to take the selected few with their golden tickets both ways and that's it. I'd say if you saw 014 in a video and I saw 011, those would've been it.

Considering everyone I saw at the City earlier today looked like a government employee, not a single kid or parent, no randoms and 1 photographer, I'm having a hard time believing 6000 people entered the ballot, and the selections weren't rigged. Didn't go to Gungahlin to see what was going on there, I assume the 'more important' people and journalists/news crews were there, cause there was practically nothing happening at the City, at least while I was there.

[Buzz Killington]

It sounds like you didn't see the ballot runs, because they definitely had families, kids etc. quite possibly you saw one of the various test runs. I heard there were TC staff on them today.

[Busnerd]

AND first public trip from EACH end on Sat.
(Dammit, I will be away so can't.)

I was referring to this part of Triumph's post.

Don't see how a public ballot was unfair, unless you're a non ACT resident, they only picked 150 names from over 6000 entries so most people missed out, but you can ride it tomorrow without the need to win a ticket.

[King of Buses]

009 was the first (public) departure from the City, leaving at 0800 this morning.

Believe 005 was the first from Gungahlin.

[Toyota Camry]

Trams are currently suspended; I am unaware if replacement buses have been ordered. I have decided to travel on bus route 254 in lieu. It is not clear if replacement buses will stop in tram stops, or on the kerbside; some light rail stops do not have any nearby TC bus stops for a bus to use.

[Barry Drive]

1. Service was resumed shortly afterwards.

2. There won't be any replacement buses this week while the 200s are still running.

3. Agree that notification and signage of replacement buses needs to exist, and some bus stops need relocating.

[Busnerd]

It was a brief shut down of the overhead power which appeared to last around 10 minutes before normal services resumed, as usual a vast over-reaction by the local media claiming people were trapped, which is no different to a bus being stuck in a traffic jam and unable to move, yet people don't say they are trapped as it's not an interesting news story.

Secondly, why would buses drive onto the tracks the to pick up passengers, for someone apparently well educated it is an absurd assumption.

Finally, Every stop has a bus stop nearby in both directions, Gungahlin Place has the Gungahlin Place Interchange, Manning Clarke Has bus stops in both directions, although one is closed off at the moment, Mapleton, Nullarbor and Well Station all have bus stops on both sides in both directions, EPIC Is probably the furthest from a bus stop but the EPIC bus stops outside the showgrounds would most likely be the location in this instance. Philip Avenue, Swinden St, Dickson Interchange, Macarthur, Ipima, Elouera and Alinga all have bus stops across the road in both directions as well.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

I am curious as to the reason why you were not impressed; personally I suggest that you should have travelled the entire route to Gungahlin Place, that would have given you a larger sample of the route to conduct an assessment based upon.

It wouldn't have, cause I was riding to try out the tram not the journey, and I didn't have the time to go the full way to see how much more disgusting Gungahlin has turned over the past few years, was bad enough last time I went there, esp now that it's plaguing Tuggeranong and Woden, see enough of it...
The only thing about the tram that impressed me was how quickly it could 'traction' (apparently that's what the accelerate lever is called) up to high speeds.

[Toyota Camry]

It wouldn't have, cause I was riding to try out the tram not the journey, and I didn't have the time to go the full way to see how much more disgusting Gungahlin has turned over the past few years, was bad enough last time I went there, esp now that it's plaguing Tuggeranong and Woden, see enough of it...

Do explain what your issue is with Gungahlin, Woden & Tuggeranong; as a proud resident of Ngunnawal, one of Canberra's finest suburbs, it is difficult to see what issue there is with Gungahlin. I suggest you stick to Civic and Belconnen and the 300 series or R4 bus between them; as they are the only two places in Canberra that you approve of.

[Busfanatic101]

Ngunnawal, one of Canberra's finest suburbs

On what basis?

[Busnerd]

Because an EL1 lives there, obviously.

[Toyota Camry]

Andrew Leigh MP will be hosting a mobile office onboard various light rail services between Gungahlin Place & Alinga Street this afternoon; as is stated in Dr Leigh's tweet, free travel for MyWay card holders has been arranged. This tweet has been linked below.

https://twitter.com/ALeighMP/status/1120990045035307008

[Busfanatic101]

Andrew Leigh MP will be hosting a mobile office onboard various light rail services between Gungahlin Place & Alinga Street this afternoon; as is stated in Dr Leigh's tweet, free travel for MyWay card holders has been arranged. This tweet has been linked below.

https://twitter.com/ALeighMP/status/1120990045035307008

More likely he is a little confused about travel fare arrangements

[triumph]

Had the opportunity on Friday to ride Light Rail several times, remarks:
- All services used ran to time;
- Ride quality was very good but not as good, from my memory from several years ago, as the The G (Gold Coast). I noticed some slight lateral oscillations which on new, grinder treated track in concrete I had not expected;
- 'Flange squeal' rounding the tight curve into Flemington Rd from the Federal Highway was audible inside the LRV;
- Very smooth acceleration and deceleration somewhat spoilt by an initial jerk on starting and more so finally coming to a rest. Far superior though to the yo-yo braking so common with ACTION buses.
- Services were crowded with many children and carers sampling the system.
- Bike users had some difficulty accessing the racks due to ordinary passengers milling about and not knowing where the racks were.
- A wheel 'thrum' reminiscent of braking 'flat' spots on wheels but varying in intensity, and with frequency varying with speed, was present in various modules and vehicles. Bit of a puzzle. Could be something inherent in the CAF mechanism but, to my mind, more likely to be REGULARLY varying rail surface condition. Perhaps an effect from grinding?
- At Dickson Interchange the local map prominently shows some bus stops, but the actual bus interchange is only delineated by a couple of lines requiring reference to the map key, it should be more prominent than minor stops;
- On board announcements and displays indicate verbally and in writing which side to alight from, incorporating an 'arrow' symbol in the display would help some passengers;
- Several intermediate stations displayed the wrong next service with times relating to the following service, very bad PR;
- At Gungahlin Place both platform indicators showed identical details for next departure. OK if only one LRV there/arriving, but hopefully will be different if LRVs are present in both platforms;
- At Alinga Street, City, the LRVs (while I was there) all came and went from the Western side track, but at Gungahlin Place both sides were being used without any pattern that I noticed;
- Arriving LRVs at the terminii displayed 'Not in Service' but passengers boarded anyway.

Overall, despite some very minor quibbles, it seems to me to be an excellent system worthy of use and extending.
 

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

-'Flange squeal' rounding the tight curve into Flemington Rd from the Federal Highway was audible inside the LRV.

Yeah, is it suppose to be that noisy? cause when I got off at the Watson station the other day, I could clearly hear it from that distance.

[Busnerd]

I assume you mean Phillip Avenue by 'the Watson station'. It is not exactly "meant to be that noisy", could be solved easily but hasn't been for some reason, although it is a common railway noise, it is not ideal and something can be done to reduce it.

As for the Gungahlin/Alinga PID's - have noticed that too, both platforms at each terminus show identical departure information which isn't helpful for passengers, there is also no platform numbers for any stop, despite them all having platform numbers. Have also noticed on occasion, as you say, PID's at all stops not showing the next service but showing the one after that, I've also seen stops showing the next service as due in the following services bottom row and showing the 2nd service in the main part of the screen which is confusing.

Understand what you mean about directional arrows, the trains in Melbourne and LR in Sydney have '>>>' at the end of the scrolling to text to show what side the doors are opening, could be helfpul if you couldn't/didn't hear the announcement.

Agree about the maps, hear that there *might* be new maps coming later on down the road, not sure who designed the ones who are there now although I have heard that Transit Graphics expressed interest in making new/better maps that actually have bus information, not just an icon with a bus and no further information.

[Sylvan Loves Buses]

Yeah, the Phillip Ave Station, sorry couldn't remember its name from the top of my head.

...although I have heard that Transit Graphics expressed interest in making new/better maps that actually have bus information, not just an icon with a bus and no further information.

Yeah, bus stops on the individual routes maps would be bloody nice too...

[Busnerd]

Did notice that, the big map shows stops but the individual ones don't show any, plus they're really missing a city inset to the map, it shows all the city streets as the black and white dotted lines with no close stop/street info unless you go to the individual maps which again don't have any stops on them.

The Transit App for Android does have stops shown on it which is quite helpful.

[triumph]

At intersection of Northbourne and Alinga diagonally across from Light Rail station at about 4.30pm today. While waiting for 'Walk' LRV arrived. Crossed Alinga and another wait for 'Walk' to station. Together a long time to get to the station and thought at risk of missing the service to Gungahlin.

These long waits are resulting in much darting across against the 'Don't Walk' with the inevitable unsafe outcomes.

Like the Elizabeth/King Streets junction in Sydney and Flinders/Elizabeth Streets junction in Melbourne, both of which have high public transport pedestrian traffic, I think there is merit in arranging the intersection of Alinga St with the 2 carriageways of Northbourne Ave to implement simultaneous all directions 'walk' though with discouragement for the longest diagonals. (This system is often called a 'Barnes Dance' after American traffic engineer Henry Barnes who devised it many decades ago.)

At the LRV, I found it already crowded with staff saying it was 'full' and encouraging patrons to go to the other platform and use the following service. Did travel on the 'full' service, but though quite a lot of standing passengers, it was far from the crush load maximum capacity.

 

[Busnerd]

Had the same observation yesterday that they could really save a lot of time by making all traffic stop at that intersection to allow a 30-45 second or so all direction pedestrian signal.

[triumph]

Travelling from Gungahlin to City today (3rd), the LRV was just commencing the curve onto the Federal Highway when a heavy (later learnt a 'full service') brake application brought us abruptly to a stand. A motorist N bound into Flemington Rd had run the red light and was already afoul the adjoining track next to the front of the LRV. The motorist backed away and after a short pause the LRV resumed the trip.

It seemed to me that the driver's subconscious memory had cut in and the driver proceeded as if the vehicle was in an uncontrolled left turn slip lane. No collision, so all ended well, but it was very close. 

[Toyota Camry]

I have been informed reliably that cardboard light rail vehicles were being dispensed at UNSW Canberra Oval yesterday; I was not able to pick one up, as I am presently in Batehaven.

[triumph]

I will agree with ajw373, the only time I see them crossing the median is usually at an intersection, and considering LRV's will be travelling at 70km/h unencumbered, I'm not sure that emergency vehicles would just drive into the corridor without letting the light rail operations know they're doing so, I'm sure it'd be quite the shock to see a vehicle pull on to the tracks in front of a tram at full speed, that said I wouldn't discount it, they drive on tracks in other cities so I guess we wait and see.

The Canberra Times reported this week the Minister confirming that ambulances and emergency vehicles can use the light rail corridor to get around traffic.

[Toyota Camry]

Canberra Metro Operations are now recruiting for light rail vehicle operators; the link to the job advertisement is listed below. It is unknown if they are recruiting due to an impending increase in the frequency of services, or due to high staff turnover; as a daily light rail commuter, I am hoping that it will be the former.

It is listed on the right side of the advertisement that the average salary for operators is around the $55,000 mark; this is close to in line with APS2 roles at pay point 3. I will not be applying, as my existing salary in an EL1 role is much higher; however I wish good luck to applicants from this board, and hope to see yourself driving my light rail vehicle from Gungahlin Place one day.

https://www.seek.com.au/job/39659849

[Stan butler]

I will not be applying, as my existing salary in an EL1 role is much higher;

Question - why do you have to keep reminding us that you are an EL1?   For the example above, why not just simply say. "I will not be applying".

This is a serious question

[Toyota Camry]

Question - why do you have to keep reminding us that you are an EL1?   For the example above, why not just simply say. "I will not be applying".

This is a serious question

It appears that you have never been a member of the APS; it is very common in most departments and/or agencies to make reference in conversation to employment grades. If you are ever lucky enough to join the APS, you will understand; until then, it is best to not comment.

[Stan butler]

It appears that you have never been a member of the APS; it is very common in most departments and/or agencies to make reference in conversation to employment grades. If you are ever lucky enough to join the APS, you will understand; until then, it is best to not comment.

I beg to differ. I well and truly did my time in the APS in more than one department.  I am a retired ex-aps person now and happily enjoying life outside of the fake BS filled bubble called the APS. Finished at EL2 level so I feel I have far more insight into the system then you have.

While we did talk about classifications when planning and discussing roles, we did not present ourselves in an elitist manner - that is, we didn't say "I am an el1 so I think I am better then the other person".  This is the premise that you seem to say in your messages.

In other words - get off your high horse.  Being an EL1 isn't that special.  I've been there and done that - much more than you think.

[Northside]

Some people would prefer to be a tram driver if that job gives them happiness and they feel like they can do a public good. Life's not all about APS levels and comparing wages.

[Toyota Camry]

Some people would prefer to be a tram driver if that job gives them happiness and they feel like they can do a public good. Life's not all about APS levels and comparing wages.

I am not talking down the position of light rail operator; my statement was purely from a financial point of view. It is a serious job operating a light rail vehicle; it is not like a job that any person could do, such as working for UberEATS or McDonald's.

[Busfanatic101]

I am not talking down the position of light rail operator; my statement was purely from a financial point of view. It is a serious job operating a light rail vehicle; it is not like a job that any person could do, such as working for UberEATS or McDonald's.

Now you're talking down Maccas and uber workers. Each job has it's own set of unique demands, and each worker has unique circumstances. Everyone deserves respect. A job does not make you more or less superior than another.

[ajw373]

Ladies, please...

[Busnerd]

Back on topic please everyone or the off topic posts will be moderated (removed)

As for the wage, the graph shows the average pay for that type of role, not specifically stating that it is $55,000 although one would expect it to be in the ballpark.

[Bus 503]

Can anyone advise on the departures from Alinga Street between 18:00–18:30?
I'm wondering what time and how frequently services depart from there.
I caught the 18:15 tram on Monday, but it disobeyed the platform overhead screen and departed at 18:10.
I understood that they were going to make trams every six minutes until 18:30, "extending" peak hour (I think this was in the Canberra Times). Is this already happening? I assume not, as there was no 18:06 tram.
(Side note that the 18:17 tram is a short-run to EPIC.)

[Barry Drive]

Funny you should ask. I recently asked the same question, and this is what I was told:

1815 departure moved to 1810
1817 X1 to EPIC now full length service.

The announcement was that they would run "every 10 minutes" between 1800 & 1830. But this change hasn't been reflected in the GTFS so the apps still show the original timetable. And by the looks of it, the PIDs haven't been changed either.

[Northside]

A 10 min frequency till 7pm would be nice. I'm sitting on a 1845 tram home and it's as packed as a peak hour trip (barely room to take a deep breath)!

[triumph]

The Canberra Times reported this week the Minister confirming that ambulances and emergency vehicles can use the light rail corridor to get around traffic.

Adding, I have been told by a very reliable source that it is more than 'can use'. The Government requires the system to accommodate emergency service vehicle use.

[triumph]

Came across an interesting item in the engineering report on the proposal to add a light rail right turn from King William St to North Terrace (East) in Adelaide. The limitations of the latest modern multi-module light rail vehicles in Adelaide has effectively made the proposal unfeasable. Adelaide's newest are 5 module Alstom Citadis 302. There is an articulation between each module BUT only horizontally (yaw). This enables sharp curvature with little overhangs. In PITCH however, to accommodate vertical curves (sags, crests) there is only ONE articulation point being at the join of the second to third module (or from the other end, the 3rd and 4th module) and aggravated by stiff bogie suspension. This pitch limitation was a major factor in making the proposal unworkable (the intersection has complex gradients).
Whilst this relates to the Citadis, I wonder if our CAF 5 module trams have a similar articulation arrangement? Searching the internet has so far not answered this question.
It could be very relevant to stage 2 design near Parliament House.

It has been confirmed that our CAF Light Rail Vehicles are the same. Only ONE articulation point for vertical curve (sag, crest) negotiation. It is at one end of the R unit where it connects to either the S1 or S2 unit. This is a significant factor in designing a longitudinal track profile.

[Toyota Camry]

Last night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.

[triumph]

Last night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.

Interesting, if 'emergency' it implies limited or no prior notice. Considering that ACTION regularly pleads over the radio for drivers to cover various runs, there aren't any or extremely few standby drivers, so how was this staffed so late of a Sunday night? Equally interesting is what was the 'emergency'? We may never know.

[Busfanatic101]

Last night, emergency rail buses provided R1 services north of Dickson Interchange for the last two hours of service; vehicles were supplied by Transport Canberra, however it is unknown which buses were used.

Didn't know TC had any railbuses in its fleet 🤔🤨

[Toyota Camry]

Interesting, if 'emergency' it implies limited or no prior notice. Considering that ACTION regularly pleads over the radio for drivers to cover various runs, there aren't any or extremely few standby drivers, so how was this staffed so late of a Sunday night? Equally interesting is what was the 'emergency'? We may never know.

I am not privy to the exact details, as I was informed by an APS4 in my section who was travelling home to the Phillip Avenue stop; from another website, I have obtained some extra details, which are posted below. My information provided previously was incorrect; it was actually on Saturday night when this occurred.

So I was in Civic this Saturday night and when trying to go back to Gungahlin I noticed the trams were only running to Dickson. Then there were replacement buses running from Dickson to Nullarbor, then another tram from Nullarbor to Gungahlin. Emergency vehicles were gathered at what looked to be the Sanford St-Flemington Rd intersection. I'm guessing this happened somewhere between 10pm and 12am?

I was on the tram that got stopped on the tracks. Was a serious car accident across the tram tracks. The tram wasn't involved but we were stuck in the tram over 1 hour while emergency services did their thing. It didn't look great and was pretty full on. Haven't seen any follow up but hope the people in the car were alright.

[Bus 503]

Funny you should ask. I recently asked the same question, and this is what I was told:

1815 departure moved to 1810
1817 X1 to EPIC now full length service.

The announcement was that they would run "every 10 minutes" between 1800 & 1830. But this change hasn't been reflected in the GTFS so the apps still show the original timetable. And by the looks of it, the PIDs haven't been changed either.

Caught the 18:15 departure yesterday that was supposedly moved to 18:10. However, the LRV departed at 18:15 as per the PIDs.
Perhaps the 18:10 departure is an unofficial occurrence that doesn't occur during the school holidays?
(Whenever the 18:10 departure did occur in the past, the PIDs didn't update to suggest this earlier departure.)
The 18:17 departure came along after, and the desto stated "EPIC", so I doubt that was full length as above.

[Busnerd]

Due to school holidays the regular timetable has returned being:

18:00 ALG - GGN
18:15 ALG - GGN
18:17 ALG - EPC
18:30 ALG - GGN

[triumph]

TC Service Alerts has announced a period of night maintenance (weather permitting) of the Light Rail Network. The work is mostly in the night gap in operation, but for a few days evening work is also programmed.
 
'Bustitution' using TC buses will occur between Dickson and Gungahlin for services leaving Alinga St after 7.30pm and Gungahlin after 7.45pm for the evenings from Sunday 26th Jan to Thurs 30th Jan inclusive.

The Light Rail will continue to operate between Alinga St and Dickson with mode change at Dickson. Tap on/off on the buses will not be required.

It seems some quite substantial 'fettling up' is needed on the system after the bedding in during 2019.

[triumph]

'Bustitution'.

Took a trip from Gungahlin to City and back yesterday evening.
Surprisingly, light rail works didn't appear to be intensive. There was drainage (?) activity at Mapleton Avenue, a crew working at the depot junction, roadwork at Epic, and a few works vehicles observed at intervals (some moving along the road).

The Light Rail service was maintained between Alinga St and Dickson Interchange only. LRVs 006 and 014 being used. In addition LRV010 was in the same section for driver training (useful too as cover for breakdowns, LRV recovery, etc?).

At Dickson Interchange City bound departures were from the arrival platform, then via the crossover near the City end of the Platforms to the normal City bound track.

Alinga St, Dickson Interchange, and Gungahlin platforms were staffed to guide customers (very little to do at Gungahlin - would have been tedious for staff), but no sign of staff at intermediate stops between Dickson and Gungahlin.
 
Destination out of Alinga St displayed 'Dickson Interchange', and on- board normal announcement approaching Dickson of service termination but no mention of mode change.

Bus arrangements seem to be by 'bendy bus' with journey time around 20min. Noted bus I was on stopped to set down at a stop midway between two LR Stops. 506 and 680 were noted with another blue 'bendy' seen. Nominally 3 buses could cover a 1/4hr service, but to allow driver breaks, etc there was probably a 4th (or driver changes).
 
Services commenced and ended at Platform 3 Gungahlin and commenced from Platform 2 at the Dickson Interchange. Arrival at Dickson however was at the Light Rail Bus Replacement stop in Northbourne Ave. The actual Interchange would have been better but the reversal would have been more complicated. Ample time to transfer on the City bound service I was on was available so alternatively passengers could have conveniently stayed on till the bus arrived at Platform 2 (perhaps the bus was a little late and missed the preceding Light Rail service).
Tap on/off on the buses was not required. Overall Gungahlin to City time on the service I was on was about 40min much of which was waiting departure at Dickson Interchange (10min after my arrival on platform).
Routing Gungahlin to Dickson was via The Valley Ave and Manning Clark thence parallel to the Light Rail with small diversion to service road at Epic. The return route was slightly different with the bus continuing in Flemington Rd to turn right into Kate Crace then into Ernest Cavanagh to Gungahlin Place. The service I was on set down and then loaded immediately and departed for Dickson.Destination display was 'Light Rail Replacement' and route 'R1'.

Difference in ride quality between bus (especially in the rear half) and LRV was very obvious.

Overall, a well organised and implemented arrangement.

[Bus 400]

I smell an election coming up, the ACT Government is set to fund studies into Stages 3 (Belconnen to Airport) & 4 (Woden to Tuggeranong).

https://www.railexpress.com.au/act-government-fund-studies-light-rail-extensions/

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