December 09, 2019, 02:39:49 pm

Network 2019 - weekend services

Started by Toyota Camry, May 07, 2019, 08:47:04 pm

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Toyota Camry

May 07, 2019, 08:47:04 pm Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:47:37 pm by Barry Drive Reason: Split topic
It has been reported by WIN News Canberra tonight that close to 200 services were cancelled last weekend due to driver shortage; if this is an ongoing issue, it is likely that weekend services will soon be reduced, potentially to a compromise level offering more bus services than the previous network, but lower than the present new network.

Busnerd

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 07, 2019, 08:47:04 pmif this is an ongoing issue, it is likely that weekend services will soon be reduced
Based on what information? What Michael Hammond reported? I doubt they will completely change their weekend shifts and timetables based on this, regardless of how many services they run, weekend shifts are still voluntary, no matter if it's 1 or 100 shifts, sure it is one option, as is recruiting more weekend casual workers for example, it's more a case of wait and see.

Toyota Camry

Quote from: Busnerd on May 08, 2019, 02:00:39 pmBased on what information? What Michael Hammond reported? I doubt they will completely change their weekend shifts and timetables based on this, regardless of how many services they run, weekend shifts are still voluntary, no matter if it's 1 or 100 shifts, sure it is one option, as is recruiting more weekend casual workers for example, it's more a case of wait and see.
It has been proposed by the Transport Workers Union, quoted in the Canberra Times, that weekend services should be reduced until they have sufficient staff; it seems you are proposing that many trips will need to continue to be cancelled every weekend due to staff shortages rather than providing a more reliable service in line with driver availability. It is likely to take months for Transport Canberra to recruit suitable candidates and put them through a training course to drive a bus; the length of the process could be extended by the strong labour market in the ACT thanks to the Barr Government which makes it likely that Transport Canberra will struggle to attract suitable applicants for such positions, it will take extra time if they are forced to recruit staff for interstate and organise for trainee drivers and their families to relocate to Canberra, I am also aware from my efforts in coordinating for executive, director and secretary level new employees in my department to move to Canberra that relocations are often slow and complicated to organise.

Snorzac

Transport Canberra is most of the way through the current recruitment process, with the usual high number of candidates. I have applied as a casual and have recently done my interview and lap of the depot in 920, by the timeframe I was given to hear about the next stage it sounds like they will be interviewing for the next three weeks or so. I believe after this stage there is only a medical prior to offer of employment. It may not be as far off as you think to get more drivers in...


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Busfanatic101

Why should the TWU quote get more value than the TC quotes. Just because CT quoted it doesn't mean anything.
Also note there have been plenty of training buses driving around recently too. 18 volunteers short (if I remember correctly) is not much. TWU seems to have the view that there aren't people who want to work overtime, which is a illogical generalisation.

Also, an update for you where TWU have scaled back their comments from your preferred source: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6112782/hopes-problems-plaguing-new-weekend-bus-routes-can-be-fixed/?cs=14225

Snorzac

You have to remember that due to national driving regulations a driver must have 4 (need to confirm that) in every 28 days off, and this 28 days is continuously rolling. So whilst it may have only been 18 short this weekend gone, next weekend because the drivers volunteering may not have had adequate days off you may end up 20 short or 25 short. So whilst 18 doesn't seem like a lot, the rolling 28 day rule will cause them further issues moving forward


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Busnerd

Not without mentioning TC receives hundreds of applications every year for driving roles and many get knocked back for whatever reason, if they're really that desperate then why not go backwards through their list of applicants and choose the ones who 'just missed out' and offer them a position, would save them a lot of time.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Snorzac on May 09, 2019, 12:10:27 pmYou have to remember that due to national driving regulations a driver must have 4 (need to confirm that) in every 28 days off, and this 28 days is continuously rolling. So whilst it may have only been 18 short this weekend gone, next weekend because the drivers volunteering may not have had adequate days off you may end up 20 short or 25 short. So whilst 18 doesn't seem like a lot, the rolling 28 day rule will cause them further issues moving forward
I'm not sure about what the employment structure at TC is in particular but I would imagine there would be part-timers and casuals doing well below the limits who could use the extra pay, and others who try to drive on weekends/public holidays after working  other employment on weekdays. As I understand it, underemployment is still a significant issue and optional weekend work is a good place to pick up the extra hours when you need it, especially when there are more shifts than workers, which in many places is the other way around. The impact of the limits on working days would really depend on the proportion of the workforce that these people form and the usual hours that drivers are doing.

Barry Drive

Quote from: Snorzac on May 09, 2019, 12:10:27 pmYou have to remember that due to national driving regulations a driver must have 4 (need to confirm that) in every 28 days off, and this 28 days is continuously rolling.
This is correct - although it is expressed as 4 x "24 hours continuous rest periods" in any 28 day period.

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on May 09, 2019, 01:02:26 pm.. I would imagine there would be part-timers and casuals doing well below the limits who could use the extra pay
Part-timers are still rostered to work Mon to Fri so at most they can only work one day each weekend (on average) to adhere to the driving regulations. I would also imagine that existing part-time and casual drivers are already working weekends where they can, so there wouldn't be many more who could be called on.

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 09, 2019, 11:15:19 amIt has been proposed by the Transport Workers Union, quoted in the Canberra Times, that weekend services should be reduced until they have sufficient staff
The Canberra Times made the story appear as though this was the case, but it wasn't. I think it was more of a suggestion that an option is to reduce weekend services if there are insufficient drivers available. (And this is supported by the WIN News story.)

But altering weekend bus services would still be a major exercise. Timetables would need reprinting and bus stop timetables and GTFS feeds would have to be updated. Lead time would be a few weeks - after deciding what to cut and what to keep.

triumph

An interim improvement measure, which doesn't involve reissuing the timetable, etc., would be to publish, on the web site prior to each weekend, the services cancelled due to driver shortage; and ensure the telephone enqury service, next bus SMS text service, and journey planning software account for the changes (or issue advice on how and when to check).

Given the lack of professionalism by TC already noted for other aspects, it is probably unlikely.

From an enthusiast perspective, just how amateurish is the operation? How far ahead is the availability of volunteers known? Right up to who walks in? How is it decided which services won't run? Can a volunteer easily reneg and opt out? And so forth.

Sadly, reading between the lines in the media, it seems TC conciliated by not pursuing a change to rostered weekend work on the basis that the Union would reciprocate with sufficient volunteers. But were there other understandings? For instance, did TC indicate a level of employment but which is yet to be achieved? In the absence of complete information, one can only conclude that the driver provision failure lies with both TC and the Union.

But from a public/customer perspective all that is irrelevant, the Government through TC, the responsible entity, announced and implemented a new service network and has failed to deliver in full.
   

Busfanatic101

There are always cancellations from driver shortages, bus breakdowns, accidents etc., not all of which can be foreseen.
Updates around this have not been given for years and there's no reason why they would start now. Plus, the bad publicity from everyone knowing the extent of service cancellations (compared to the small number of cross people directly affected by cancellations) is something they probably don't need right now.
We are still fortunate in that we now have real time service information which, while not easily accessible to everyone, would be accessible to most people. It appears that TC considers this sufficient in regards to information on cancellations (with which I am inclined to agree. It could be assumed that anyone who cannot access the wide range of real-time sources available would equally struggle to access a source of information dedicated to service cancellations).

Toyota Camry

It would result in far worse publicity for Transport Canberra if an event similar to the death of Daniel Morcombe occurred due to a bus service cancellation, as happened to Mr Morcombe due to a policy of the bus operator; the media publicity and coroners report would be scathing if it were found that the event could have been prevented by the release of information. For many customers, the cancellation of a weekend bus service could result in them arriving at work 1 hour late, missing a bus to Sydney or incurring significant financial expense due to missing a flight at Canberra Airport; this is why it is important that the public are notified so they can make alternative plans.

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 09, 2019, 09:03:30 pmIt would result in far worse publicity for Transport Canberra if an event similar to the death of Daniel Morcombe occurred due to a bus service cancellation, as happened to Mr Morcombe due to a policy of the bus operator; the media publicity and coroners report would be scathing if it were found that the event could have been prevented by the release of information. For many customers, the cancellation of a weekend bus service could result in them arriving at work 1 hour late, missing a bus to Sydney or incurring significant financial expense due to missing a flight at Canberra Airport; this is why it is important that the public are notified so they can make alternative plans.
And how do you propose they do this on a way that real-time tracking doesn't?
Also note they wouldn't be an hour late because these shortages are cutting rapid frequency, not hourly routes.

Toyota Camry

May 10, 2019, 09:53:09 am #13 Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:50:15 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Busfanatic101 on May 09, 2019, 11:58:50 pmAnd how do you propose they do this on a way that real-time tracking doesn't?
Also note they wouldn't be an hour late because these shortages are cutting rapid frequency, not hourly routes.
You appear to be unaware that nxtbus and other tracking applications do not provide notification of cancelled services; they simply do not appear in the tracker after they are scheduled to have commenced, this makes it impossible to find out if a trip will operate or not prior to the scheduled departure time, by which it may be too late to organise an alternative journey.

You are also claiming there is an "iron clad" guaranree that only rapid services will be effected; whilst Transport Canberra have claimed that local routes will be prioritised, they have not made any guarantee they will not be effected. It is also being forgotten by yourself that many customers use rapid services to connect with local routes; one missed rapid trip can mean an hour long wait for the next local service, it is not policy of Transport Canberra to hold connections due to rapid cancellations. It appears you suggest a minimum connection time of 20 minutes between R4 and other services, and 35 minutes between all other rapids and other services is nessecary; while this may be true on present weekends, many would consider it unacceptable.

Busfanatic101

May 10, 2019, 11:12:04 am #14 Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:53:30 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 09:53:09 amYou appear to be unaware that nxtbus and other tracking applications do not provide notification of cancelled services; they simply do not appear in the tracker after they are scheduled to have commenced, this makes it impossible to find out if a trip will operate or not prior to the scheduled departure time, by which it may be too late to organise an alternative journey.
Of course I know that. What I'm saying is that consequences of foreseen drivers shortages, unforeseen driver shortages, and other unforeseen factors that may result in cancellation have the same consequences. Of course, TC never have and never will be able to notify unforeseen cancellations in advance. Why make such a big fuss of weekend cancellations due to driver shortages in the new weekend network compared with any other form of cancellation?

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 09:53:09 amYou are also claiming there is an "iron clad" guaranree [sic] that only rapid services will be effected; whilst Transport Canberra have claimed that local routes will be prioritised, they have not made any guarantee they will not be effected.
I have made no such claim.

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 09:53:09 amIt is also being forgotten by yourself that many customers use rapid services to connect with local routes; one missed rapid trip can mean an hour long wait for the next local service, it is not policy of Transport Canberra to hold connections due to rapid cancellations. It appears you suggest a minimum connection time of 20 minutes between R4 and other services, and 35 minutes between all other rapids and other services is nessecary; while this may be true on present weekends, many would consider it unacceptable.
Another unfounded attack - I have not 'forgotten'. I am well aware of the inconvenience of trying to transfer between low frequencies. Some people would consider the entire weekend service unacceptable. Some people would consider anything less than a door to door service at 5 minutes frequency unacceptable. This is reality. Budgets. Resources. We can't have everything. I'd rather they spent money on increasing frequency than spending that same money on reporting cancellations. Reporting cancellations may seem a small task, but every little thing seems to be a money drain.

Toyota Camry

May 10, 2019, 04:44:46 pm #15 Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:54:42 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Busfanatic101 on May 10, 2019, 11:12:04 amOf course I know that. What I'm saying is that consequences of foreseen drivers shortages, unforeseen driver shortages, and other unforeseen factors that may result in cancellation have the same consequences.
If a shift has not been filled, it will be known to operations well before the trips of that shift are scheduled to commence that they will not be operating; you appear to believe that the rosters are not confirmed in advance, and that Transport Canberra drivers are simply asked to present themselves at depots on weekends to join a queue waiting the allocation of the next available shift.

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on May 10, 2019, 11:12:04 amOf course, TC never have and never will be able to notify unforeseen cancellations in advance. Why make such a big fuss of weekend cancellations due to driver shortages in the new weekend network compared with any other form of cancellation?
It is not an issue for other operqyors to provide this information; furthermore it is unusual for trips to be missed on low frequency services operating 30 or 60 minutely in Canberra, it has been some years since I have waited for a bus in Ngunnawal that has not appeared, however it may potentially now occur on weekends.

Quote from: Busfanatic101 on May 10, 2019, 11:12:04 amI'd rather they spent money on increasing frequency than spending that same money on reporting cancellations. Reporting cancellations may seem a small task, but every little thing seems to be a money drain.
It would cost little to nothing for Transport Canberra to report service cancellations; you are ignoring the societal impact of this notification not being provided. It seems that you would rather save the government $5 rather than prevent a disadvantaged woman from getting to work in time for her Sunday shift costing her $250 in lost wages due to missing the shift;

Northside

This sh*t is hilarious. Get that troll a spot in Jimmy Kimmel!

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a racist and a member of the Liberal party"

Classic.

Busfanatic101

May 11, 2019, 09:37:17 am #17 Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:55:26 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 04:44:46 pmmy privilege is acknowledged by myself
Yes we can see that. It's also known as arrogance.

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 04:44:46 pmIt would cost little to nothing for Transport Canberra to report service cancellations; you are ignoring the societal impact of this notification not being provided. It seems that you would rather save the government $5 rather than prevent a disadvantaged woman from getting to work in time for her Sunday shift costing her $250 in lost wages due to missing the shift;
Well go and request a one-off $5 payment to set up and provide an ongoing cancellation reporting service for them. Better yet, you could actually "improve society for those less privileged than yourself." by donating the time and resources for the cause and do it as a volunteer, since I'm sure you can spare $5 and that's all the service is worth.

Quote from: Toyota Camry on May 10, 2019, 04:44:46 pmyou appear to believe that the rosters are not confirmed in advance, and that Transport Canberra drivers are simply asked to present themselves at depots on weekends to join a queue waiting the allocation of the next available shift.
I have not said that, reread my post. I was comparing the consequences of foreseen and unforeseen cancellations

Why do I even bother...

Barry Drive

May 11, 2019, 03:00:11 pm #18 Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 03:00:51 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Northside on May 10, 2019, 11:41:35 pmThis sh*t is hilarious. Get that troll a spot in Jimmy Kimmel!
Agreed. This has once again gone too far. Posts have been edited to remove the irrelevancies.

By all means discuss the actual topic at hand, but no more references to people's employment status or voting intentions.

(Also, the topic of the weekend disruptions has been split off into a new topic.)

Toyota Camry

I am hearing anecdotal reports that many services did not operate today; it appears there will continue to be cancellations into the evening.

Toyota Camry

It has been brought to my attention that there is now a weekend bus crisis; many services are failing to operate, in particular during the evenings. Transport Canberra have taken the extreme step of launching a "Check before you travel" travel campaign utilising social media platforms to encourage all weekend bus passengers to contact 13 17 10 or use the NXTBUS application to check if their service will be operating or not prior to proceeding to a bus stop; there are many complaints online from passengers whose buses have not appeared. I have provided a number of excerpts below.

It is looking like an emergency weekend network may need to be introduced if this issue cannot be resolved quickly; one solution may be to arrange for QCity Transit to operate the shifts that cannot be filled using Transport Canberra's own resources, however this may not be desirable as QCity Transit vehicles are not fitted with MyWay equipment and therefore no revenue can be collected.

QuoteMore buses, more often, more lies!

As an example of my I'm not using them much right now, I was hoping to get a bus home from my afternoon out on Saturday. After (another) 15 minute wait past the arrival time, I had another lengthy phone conversation with the lovely staff at Transport Canberra, only to be left with the news that there will be no buses coming for the next 3 hours.
QuoteWhy would it be, that even after 'checking'
Ive been sitting out the front of the legislative assembly for almost AN HOUR past the the time i was told it was coming?
These changes you've made don't seem to connect anything at all. Its -1 out here, and one of your most frequent buses (the R4) cant seem to even operate once an hour?
QuoteExactly. At my stop there were kids who had finished work waiting to get home- it was about 5 degrees and we waited 40 mins before we could get the information thankfully parents could pick them up . Another driver told me "more than likely cancelled get an uber" unacceptable.
QuoteI had buses that did not turn up on Saturday & Sunday nights due to cancelled services. On Sunday night the 53 north from Civic was completely scrubbed in the evening. #TransportCanberra this is not the way to run a city bus service! #WeNeedBetter! @alistair_coe
QuoteYes #TransportCanberra are trying to be too smart by half. Should be a website on cancelled services & there should be announcements at interchanges. Last night 3 services from 7pm in a row on 53 north cancelled from Civic interchange. No staff to tell people also.
QuoteNo bus after 6pm on Sunday night on Route 53. Yet timetable says a bus just after 7pm, 8pm and 9pm. People were waiting for buses. Your #Network19 and new weekend services are pathetic and a joke.
QuoteHad to walk 30min home tonight because neither of the two rapid routes which pass by my suburb were operating to the timetable. Frustrating as this isnt the first time core routes Ive used have been inexplicably dropped, but at least it was a pleasant night for a stroll.
QuoteJust been stranded. Waited for the 5:17pm 58 bus at Parliament House to go to City Bus Station (and then on to Nicholls via LR and another bus) and it never came. I tried to use Transit App to track the bus but apparently it's not real time tracking? Tried looking on TC web site but no info there. Next bus is due in an hour. Not waiting for that. Called my wife to get a lift home. Very unimpressed. :(

Urbos Rider

Unfortunately, Toyota Camry, that is not a realistic option.
Firstly, there is a very limited pool of Qcity Transit route qualified drivers, and even these would require extensive training on the TC network, fleet and ticket machines operations before getting behind the wheel of any TC routes.
Secondly, there would be considerable EBA interface issues, and I suspect the unions on either side would tread carefully in regards to staff working under either sides EBA.

If the government were strategic about this, the (long desired) gradual privatisation process of TC could stem from this very driver shortage. TC could permanently allocate a service (Say R2 for geographical reasons) to Qcity Transit, and loan them the required number of vehicles to fully operate the route, similar to BT allocating buses to Hornibrook and South West Transit to operate their routes. This would be done using Qcity Transit drivers, however, apart from new faces behind the wheel, and a different drivers uniform, the travelling public would be none the wiser. This move would be sure to upset the apple cart, however.

As for TC's current weekend driver dilemma, additional drivers could be coaxed into working weekends by incentives, such as gift vouchers, or a cumulative weekend shift reward system. Other operators have done this in the past, with great success.

Northside

Really disappointing customer service. It's not the network's fault tho, it's the fault of the stupid agreement that makes shift work optional. Until that gets resolved, even an emergency weekend network isn't guaranteed.

Busnerd

I would be interested to learn if the operator being government run is getting fined for all the cancelled services such as a private operator would? Presumably not as they would only be paying the fine to themselves.

If they can't cover the services then at the very least they need to staff all the bus stations/comms room with someone to make regular PA announcements regarding cancelled services, this at least saves people standing around waiting for extended periods of time for a service that will never come, yes people will still be unhappy and complain but having the information allows them to make an informed decision to keep waiting, get a taxi or uber or find another way home like another bus travelling nearby with a longer walk may be an option where some routes run close by one another. They are really handling this poorly and I assume the recent advertising for casuals and part time drivers are to fill these vacancies, so i would expect those new drivers to be given mostly weekend work, given their usual recruitment window is earlier in the year and already closed.

Toyota Camry

It has now been revealed that last weekend's cancellation rate was around 20%, and that the same level of disruption will also apply this week; I suspect this may be the final weekend of the current weekend network. The weekend bus crisis is about to to reach breaking point; this is likely to result in Transport Canberra taking extreme action to deliver an interim solution, the most likely options being to either reduce services or to arrange for a mixture of QCity Transit and Keirs vehicles and drivers to provide some services.

Toyota Camry

I am proposing these changes to weekend services as part of an emergency weekend network as a result of our present weekend bus crisis; I have listed my changes below.

R2 - Evening short services between Fraser & City shortened to operate only between Fraser & Belconnen.
R3 - Cancelled between Belconnen & City; operating only between Spence & Belconnen every 60 minutes, and between City & Airport every 30 minutes.
R4 - All services to operate using steer tag or articulated vehicles.
R5 - Cancelled between Woden & City West; passengers to use R4 or R6.
R9 - Reduced frequency; to operate every 60 minutes between Dickson & Watson.
R10 - Reduced frequency; to operate every 60 minutes.
AMC - Cancelled; passengers to be issued Cabcharge vouchers.

Bus 400

Why not scrap the R10? Passengers can use the R7 to Cooleman Court & connect to a 66. Among other possible services, temporarily cut routes that aren't performing. Even if it means diverting other routes.

Why should 2 people get a bus to themselves while 10 people wait for another service that's been cancelled.

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Northside

Quote from: Toyota Camry on July 26, 2019, 08:16:11 pmI suspect this may be the final weekend of the current weekend network. The weekend bus crisis is about to to reach breaking point

Oh won't somebody think of children!

Seriously tho, it's not as simple as cutting single routes. All routes are intertwined, so one missed shift could have repercussions across many routes. They just need to manage it better so that one particular route isn't disadvantaged multiple times and advanced notice is given so people can adjust accordingly.

Barry Drive

July 28, 2019, 11:33:37 am #28 Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 01:26:11 pm by Barry Drive
Quote from: Toyota Camry on July 26, 2019, 08:25:14 pmI am proposing these changes to weekend services as part of an emergency weekend network as a result of our present weekend bus crisis; I have listed my changes below.

R2 - Evening short services between Fraser & City shortened to operate only between Fraser & Belconnen.
R3 - Cancelled between Belconnen & City; operating only between Spence & Belconnen every 60 minutes, and between City & Airport every 30 minutes.
R4 - All services to operate using steer tag or articulated vehicles.
R5 - Cancelled between Woden & City West; passengers to use R4 or R6.
R9 - Reduced frequency; to operate every 60 minutes between Dickson & Watson.
R10 - Reduced frequency; to operate every 60 minutes.
AMC - Cancelled; passengers to be issued Cabcharge vouchers.

Partly agree with this, but I'd go further:

split both R2 & R3 to remove the Belconnen to City sector;
run 2 to/from Fraser hourly;
run 3 to/from Airport only hourly;
remove R10;
reduce R7 to hourly (with revised connection times with 70 & 71);
pay QCity to run the AMC shuttle with a MAN 12.220;
run the Gungahlin loops two-hourly after 6pm;

I'd also suggest finishing earlier on both nights.

Yes, I'm aware this would require all timetables and shifts to be re-worked but it should reduce the number of shifts that need to be filled every weekend.

Toyota Camry

I feel that R3 Airport needs to retain a 30 minute service due to variation in flight times; however the deviation through Brindabella Business Park is likely to only produce an extremely small amount of weekend patronage, and therefore could be removed on non working days.

It would also be desirable to maintain a 30 minute frequency between Kippax & Belconnen, as this is a well patronised rapid section; if the R2 were not to operate between Belconnen & City on weekends, a desirable outcome may be to implement a combined "R2/R4" weekend service similar to former route 343, operating as an R4 as per normal between Tuggeranong & Belconnen, then continuing as an R2, this would maintain a through service to Kippax & Fraser from the City Interchange.

Sylvan Loves Buses

The AMC is a free service. Barely anyone is ever on it (probably cause barely anyone knows the what and the where. It should really be a service run with a Rosa (the same with the Belconnen service), a full bus is so unnecessary. That would also clear up at least 3 drivers a day as those mini buses could be driven by the school service drivers.

Quote from: Barry Drive on July 28, 2019, 11:33:37 amI'd also suggest finishing earlier on both nights.

Although it's nice we finally get to go out a little later on Sundays, the fact that many suburban routes go later on Saturdays than on Weekdays is absurd. They really should fix that imo.

Toyota Camry

The later service on Saturday is justified due to Civic nightlife; however it is not necessary on suburban routes, and should also operate on Friday night too, this would be in line with our light rail to Gungahlin operating until 1am on Friday night. I have compiled a list of services that should operate late on Friday & Saturday evenings and which directions ; that list is below. If buses are required to position to and from the City Interchange, it may be justified to operate them with passengers onboard; this would be in line with light rail services departing Gungahlin Place until 12:30am.

L1 City Interchange to Gungahlin Place.
R2 City Interchange to Kippax; in that direction only.
R4 City Interchange to Tuggeranong; in that direction only.
R6 City Interchange to Woden.
R7 City Interchange to Chapman; in that direction only.

Toyota Camry

The weekend bus crisis continues; it has been reported in local media sources that suburban routes will be downgraded to 120 minute weekend frequencies as of September 28th. I am hoping that this will only impact south side services; with their focus on connecting with light rail, Gungahlin area services are both too high profile and heavily used for any reductions.

https://the-riotact.com/outcry-at-steels-cuts-to-weekend-bus-services-to-improve-reliability/318370

Busfanatic101

Quote from: Toyota Camry on August 17, 2019, 04:38:44 pmI am hoping that this will only impact south side services; with their focus on connecting with light rail, Gungahlin area services are both too high profile and heavily used for any reductions.
When you thought it couldn't get any more absurd 😅

Bus 400

Hopefully it's only the loops that are cut to every 2 hours, that way still providing an hourly service. Much how it was in the old network.

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Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Toyota Camry on August 17, 2019, 04:38:44 pmI am hoping that this will only impact south side services

Oh yeah, so considerate of you...


If anything, they should cut some of the unnecessary numbers of rapids they have on the weekends, that's one of the main issues. 2 hours to wait for a bus, may as well walk - TC are doing a great job at promoting more people to riding their buses.

Buzz Killington

August 18, 2019, 01:41:39 pm #36 Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 01:41:53 pm by Buzz Killington
Quote from: Bus 400 on August 17, 2019, 07:53:14 pmHopefully it's only the loops that are cut to every 2 hours, that way still providing an hourly service. Much how it was in the old network.

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That's what I thought too, given the "up to" wording

Barry Drive

Full media release can be viewed at https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/open_government/inform/act_government_media_releases/chris-steel-mla-media-releases/2019/more-reliable-weekend-bus-services

The key paragraph is this:
QuoteWhile Transport Canberra is still working on the weekend timetable adjustments, it is likely that local route buses will run less frequently, up to every 2 hours.

I would agree that the loops (especially in Gungahlin) are the low hanging fruit. Although I would like to see the hourly frequency retained where demand warrants it.

Sylvan Loves Buses

I really hope they're gonna provide new printed timetables for those who don't use technology, or I'm sure there's gonna be some uproar and CSO's getting abused.

Busnerd

I would assume given it is a temporary change they may release printed and photocopied timetable sheets, such as those usually seen during the reduced services at the end of each year and some Christmas periods which have used single paper sheets instead of the booklet.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Well another hope I have is that they improve the timings. My 71S came 3 minutes early this evening, somehow going from 2 minutes late at Namatjira Drive to Namadgi.
It's bad enough that your local bus would be reduced to every two hours, but if they allow enough time between points like that, there's going to be more issues than there already are.

Barry Drive

Agreed that some weekend timetables need adjusting. I'm not confident they'll do so, though.

Barry Drive

New timetable 2 weeks away. Still no timetables in any format - including GTFS which may cause problems with Google Transit.

Barry Drive

GTFS has been released today.

Saturday has been reduced from 2082 trips to 1439; Sunday has gone from 1655 to 1119. That's roughly a 30% reduction. (And numerically, that's 1179 trips that have been removed from the network each weekend.)

We tried to suggest alternatives, but it does seem as though the "Rapid" services are sacred (despite their lack of patronage for some) and are unchanged; only the non-Rapid routes have been cut back.

Don't think I will venture out by bus on weekends anymore. One hour frequency was bad enough. Two hours is ridiculous.

Northside

Were things really that bad that they had to halve the frequency of all non-rapid services?

Sylvan Loves Buses

Like Bus 400 said, it really should've only been the loops that had this cut, and some Rapids definitely. There's certainly quite a few routes I've skimmed over that are going to be an issue with this new adjustment.

Quote from: Northside on September 21, 2019, 05:34:34 pmWere things really that bad that they had to halve the frequency of all non-rapid services?
I noticed some of this, but with all the new drivers they've managed to acquire, surely it's not that bad. 600 or something cuts is a bit much. If they keep this up, there's going to be a point where there won't be any non-rapids on the weekends...

Bus 400

Another option could of even been running On Demand buses either all day or after 7pm.

What happens if the cRapid runs late? Will the suburban link wait for the other bus or will the passenger have to wait 2 hours for the next one?

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Snorzac

Whilst I dont agree with the cuts, just remember it is a temporary measure at this stage and I believe they plan on ramping it back up in the early new year as more new drivers come online.

Busnerd

I highly doubt any local route will wait for a rapid connection, connections aren't usually promised in suburban bus routes, more reserved for regional routes and trains and coaches to wait for each other.

Bus 400

In the old 900 series weekend services, while it wasn't published. Drivers shifts had notes to wait to either x 900 arrived at Erindale heading south. It rings a bell, but it's a vague memory, but even 900N had a note to wait til 96* arrived at Erindale.

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Toyota Camry

I believe that we should not worry too much; our excellent Barr Government is in control of the situation and has developed an action plan, this plan is visible on the Transport Canberra website. You can read the plan yourself to understand how this will proceed in the future; it states that after the introduction of a new EBA for bus drivers in 2021, the previous level of service may return.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: Busnerd on September 22, 2019, 11:05:49 amI highly doubt any local route will wait for a rapid connection

Yeah, it's not the 1980's anymore.

Barry Drive

If our "excellent Barr government" is in control of the situation, how is it that they introduced a weekend timetable which could not be adequately staffed and only published an action plan after the event?

There are many questions remaining: what will occur if this revised timetable still has insufficient drivers? If the intent is to add services later, how will they choose where to add them (Saturdays first maybe)?

Busnerd

Doesn't mean they did it, you depending how tight the times were, some drivers risked causing late trips if they waited and often when the 900 got held up you would see the local route 'waiting' drive off just before you arrived at Erindale. There was also a few late night services that arrived at Tuggeranong with 1 minute connection to the bonython, conder, banks, loop service which would generally be gone by the time you got there.

Toyota Camry

September 25, 2019, 12:36:23 pm #54 Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 12:29:08 pm by Barry Drive
If a passenger misses their local route connection, there are other options available; rideshare services such as Uber and Ola operate in Canberra, as do taxi networks including Canberra Elite, 13CABS and Cabexpress. There is no practical way to hold local services for rapid connections; for example, at Woden it would be required for every route to wait for delayed R4, R5 and R6 arrivals, it is simply best to travel "one bus back" to allow for any potential delays.

(Moderator's note: off topic discussion has been removed. All users are urged to stick to the topics at hand.)

Sylvan Loves Buses

Already don't like the new change. Although I haven't yet experienced the new 2-hourly infrequency and probably won't be able to relax and go shopping on a weekend anymore, I'm already pissed about a couple of things.
Firstly they lied about not changing the rapids, the first R4N on Sunday's is now 11 minutes later making the connection to the R6 much tighter than is was before. Once again, the 902 leaves at pretty much the exact same time as the second R6 yet still no one uses it (I probably would've if it arrived at the platform first), and unless the fools at TC haven't realised the Woden Interchange has new platform numbers, all the online timetables say platform 4, yet it leaves from platform 2 on the overhead live display...
At least that thing has a little more consistency with the 'R'apids now.

triumph

It was claimed that weekend 'Rapid' services were unchanged. Sylvan has mentioned an R4 change; and I have recently noticed the R3s ex Spence have also been changed but to only slightly later (5 to 6 min), so no signifcant effect.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: triumph on October 30, 2019, 11:47:18 pmso no signifcant effect.

I think 11 minutes is pretty significant now that all the non-rapids are every two hours.

Barry Drive

Quote from: triumph on October 30, 2019, 11:47:18 pmIt was claimed that weekend 'Rapid' services were unchanged. Sylvan has mentioned an R4 change; and I have recently noticed the R3s ex Spence have also been changed but to only slightly later (5 to 6 min), so no signifcant effect.
The headways of the Rapids were unchanged. The timetables have certainly changed - most (or all) Rapids now have less running time and often run late when carrying a significant load.

Toyota Camry

It seems that a number of posters here are simply looking to find any way at all to criticise our excellent Barr Government; they criticise the government when rapids have too much time, they then critise the government when extra time is removed from rapid schedules. The same posters also make criticism when the government is faced with a difficult dilemma involving a bus driver shortage; when the government takes the best possible course of action as they have, they criticise the government for not providing a service that is physically impossible to provide with the shortage of people in Canberra who are willing and able to drive a bus. Let it be known that our excellent Barr Government is here to stay and will be re-elected in 2020; Alistair Coe will never be Chief Minister, and I as do most Canberrans applaud that fact.