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Network 2019 - the final version

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Offline King of Buses

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Network 2019 - the final version
« on: October 16, 2018, 08:53:41 AM »
Some details of the final version of Network 19 are being made available today.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/canberra-news/up-to-50-canberra-schools-will-still-lose-dedicated-bus-services-20181015-p509qx.html



Clicking image opens larger format

I'm presuming more details will be available later.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:14:10 PM by Barry Drive »

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 09:45:36 AM »
Full list of routes, based on the map:

R1 Gungahlin to City - tram line (unchanged)
R2 Fraser West to COC via Belconnen & City (unchanged)
R3 Spence to BBP via Belconnen & City (extended to BBP)
R4 Belconnen to Tuggeranong via City & Woden (formerly City to Lanyon)
R5 Lanyon to City via Erindale, Woden, Barton & Russell (change to National Cct)
R6 City West to Woden via South Canberra (not to Weston)
R7 City to Chapman via Weston (yes: Chapman!)
R8 Belconnen to Gungahlin (unchanged)
R9 Belconnen to Watson via Bruce & Dickson (change to Thynne St)
R10 City to Denman Prospect

18 Gungahlin to Mitchell via Harrison
19/20 Gungahlin / Forde / Bonner / Amaroo loop
21/22 Gungahlin / Throsby / Harrison / Franklin / Palmerston loop
23/24 Gungahlin / Palmerston / Crace / Nicholls loop
25/26 Amaroo / Moncrieff / Taylor / Casey loop
27 Gungahlin to Casey via Moncrieff & Ngunnawal
28 Gungahlin to Casey via Ngunnawal

30 Belconnen to Dickson via Kaleen & Giralang
31 Belconnen to City via Kaleen, Dickson, Ainslie & Braddon (following old Route 7)
32 Belconnen to City via Macquarie, Cook & Aranda (old Route 40)

40 Belconnen to Fraser West via Florey, Latham, Kippax and Charnwood
41 Belconnen to Fraser West via Evatt, Melba, Flynn & Tillyard Dr
42 Belconnen to Fraser via Page, Scullin, Melba & Flynn
43 Belconnen to Evatt via McKellar (Route 12 except via Coulter Dr)
44 Belconnen to Kippax via West Macgregor & Holt (same as now)
45 Belconnen to Kippax via Weetangera, Hawker & Higgins (exact same as Route 17)

50 City to Watson via Miller St, Dickson & Downer
51 City to Dickson via O'Connor & Lyneham (north half of Route 1)
53 National Musuem to Dickson via Braddon, Ainslie & Hackett (back to using Gooreen St)
54 City to Majura Park (with peak stops at Campbell Park)
55 City to ADFA loop (same as Route 9)
56 City to Fyshwick via South Canberra (current Route 4 then Fyshwick)
57 City to Woden via Garran, Hughes, Yarralumla, PH & Parkes
58 City to Woden via Curtin, Deakin PH & Parkes

60/61 Woden / Mawson / Farrer / Isaacs / O'Malley loop
62 Woden to Mawson via Lyons, Chifley, Pearce & Torrens
63 Woden to Weston via Waramanga, Fisher & Stirling
64 Woden to Chapman via Weston & Rivett
65 Woden to Chapman via Weston, Holder & Duffy
66 Woden to Weston via Lyons, Coombs, Wright, Denman Propect

70 Woden to Tuggeranong via Weston & Kambah West
71 Woden to Tuggeranong via Weston & Kambah East
72/73 Tuggeranong / Oxley / Wanniassa / Monash loop
74/75 Tuggeranong / Erindale / Fadden / Chisholm / Gilmore / Richardson loop
76 Tuggeranong to Calwell via Wanniassa, Gowrie, Chisholm & Richardson
77 Tuggeranong to Erindale via Monash & Gowrie
78 Tuggeranong to Chisholm via Bonython, Isabella Plains & Richardson
79 Tuggeranong to Calwell via Isabella Plains & Theodore

80 Tuggeranong to Conder via Banks
81 Tuggeranong to Conder via Bonython, Gordon & Banks

180 City to Conder via Tugg Pkwy & Banks [PEAK]
181 City to Conder via Tugg Pkwy, Gordon & Banks [PEAK]
182 City to Conder via Monaro Hwy, Chisholm Shops & Calwell Shops [PEAK]
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 10:42:58 AM by Barry Drive »

Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 10:22:43 AM »
This change is a huge letdown for Lanyon Valley passengers; it is the R5 that should have been cut, not the R4, as these people want a direct trip to Tuggeranong, Woden and Civic, they are not wanting to visit Calwell, Erindale, Forrest, Barton and Russell.

I am surprised also that route 41 has been extended from Fraser East to Fraser West; I believe that patronage is very low on this section of route 14. It may be necessary for Fraser West to be upgraded from a terminus to a bus station to handle the number of buses it will be handling; I believe it will be around 10 departures per hour during the day, and 17 departures per hour in peaks.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 11:49:47 AM »
Wow, how typical... Just by looking at the map it looks to me like they barely took in much of the feedback that they got, or at least didn't redesign it properly for what was given. So many of those direct routes are given back but with no stops added.

My main concern is for Kambah, obviously cause I live there, at least they decided to leave the way they go and not have an annoying pointless switchback, but I feel there's gonna be quite a few annoyed patrons cause of an extension to Cooleman on both the routes and more walking forced upon those in the south west area to walk to the Park n ride stop for a slightly more convenient route.
I'm really disappointed frankly. So many of those loops are the same, the fact that this'll force patrons to ride several more buses/vehicles to get to work or whatever they think is encouraging more people to ride the buses when in fact it'll likely do the exact opposite.

Offline lukeo25

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 12:27:35 PM »
I'm awaiting news about the service to Hume.

Offline Busfanatic101

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 12:36:39 PM »
At least Weston Creek isn't the complete mess that it was...
Really need the revised frequencies to comment further on this

Offline Northside

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 03:16:14 PM »
I don't understand why the 23/24 need to detour to connect with the R8. I thought there were plans to add a new bus stop on Gundaroo Dr just south of Abena for this connection.

I'm still disappointed by the lack of Rapid Routes in Gungahlin. Looking at the old proposed frequencies, feeder routes to Gungahlin TC had lower frequencies than they have now. I hope this improves. You can combine the 27 and 28 pretty easily which can allow for the R8 to be extended to service Mirrabai and a direct, frequent route to Moncrieff.

Down south, I still don't understand why the 180 and 181 don't service Tuggeranong TC. If you had the two routes simply as peak extensions from Tuggers to the city, then you can have a combined frequent peak express to Tuggeranong and you don't need to run 181s and 81s (and 180/80) at the same time because the peak route completely replaces the local. It's just weird that they don't consider this!

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 04:57:15 PM »
Down south, I still don't understand why the 180 and 181 don't service Tuggeranong TC. If you had the two routes simply as peak extensions from Tuggers to the city, then you can have a combined frequent peak express to Tuggeranong and you don't need to run 181s and 81s (and 180/80) at the same time because the peak route completely replaces the local. It's just weird that they don't consider this!

They'd probably say diverting it via Tuggeranong would add too much time to the route - which would be rather ironic. I wouldn't object to it though (and I'm a resident of the region). Surprised the 180/181 aren't one route that only runs as far as Lanyon, allowing connections to the 80/81 there (like the 182 is). Either way would mean there isn't that duplication in Conder/Banks/Gordon (not that I really object to more choice of buses to catch!)

Really need the revised frequencies to comment further on this

And yeah, I feel the same about that. That would certainly help with judging things.

This change is a huge letdown for Lanyon Valley passengers; it is the R5 that should have been cut, not the R4, as these people want a direct trip to Tuggeranong, Woden and Civic, they are not wanting to visit Calwell, Erindale, Forrest, Barton and Russell.

I'm OK with the R5 being the Lanyon rapid rather than the R4, given the local Lanyon routes run to Tuggeranong. Going via Calwell and Erindale to Woden isn't all that different to going via Tuggeranong (I'll find it more convenient this way TBH). Having to go via Forrest, Barton and Russell to get to the City is disappointing though, but at least it doesn't also run via Hughes and Deakin as the original R5 was meant to in the original Rapid network announcement!


Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 09:39:36 PM »
I'm awaiting news about the service to Hume.

You and me both, that and Symonston. I've been a regular on the 80/88 to Symonston once to twice a week over the past few months, I really hope something is still considered for that, cause it's a much quicker and quieter way to get to south Narrabundah than the 6 from Woden.

I was originally annoyed about the numbers change, but it doesn't bother me anymore, my area won't be too much of a drastic change of numbers. I've become so careless trying to remember the ticket prices over the years I just can't be bothered caring about the changes anymore - mostly due to how often and annoying they've been these past few years.
As long as the new timetables (that better be printed) aren't as rubbish with the timings and connections of routes as they are now, I think I'll manage without raging too much - well apart from the Weston extension on the 70/71 and lack of a Woden bound Wanniassa bus closer to Kambah than the twice-as-far-to-walk-Wanniassa-P&R-vs-64-Vosper-street option...

Offline Northside

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2018, 09:38:36 AM »
it's a much quicker and quieter way to get to south Narrabundah than the 6.
This is the problem Action are trying to resolve. 2 routes servicing the same area - one route is barely used yet people get up in arms about losing a service when a high frequency service is just a stone's throw away. Having said that, there is a need to service the Sundown Motel and GA, so that's not a simple fix.

Quote
lack of a Woden bound Wanniassa bus closer to Kambah than the twice-as-far-to-walk-Wanniassa-P&R-vs-64-Vosper-street option...

Again, the couple of stops serviced by an infrequent 64 in Kambah that are all within walking distance to a much more frequent and fast service at the new P&R stop. It's obvious that people are using that service already over the 64, so why continue it?

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2018, 01:03:52 PM »
Because not all of us are athletes ???

It is true that Symonston is underutilised, but what are the people who work in the Therapeutic Goods Administration Government office and visitors of the trailer park suppose to do if there's no service. My option is not severe, cause I'm only travelling to the German Harmonie Club which is 100m difference between the buses, but those people would have to travel (walk) up to 2.5km just to get a bus back home or there to work.
It's just like Hume, I don't know if Hume was serviced in the 90's cause my timetables don't go that far back, but from the timetables I do own, there was a significant gap where it wasn't serviced, although it would've been a really good idea that it was. Hume is an industrial suburb just like Mitchell and Fyshwick, although not as large, it should still have a service - at least once or twice each way a day. Like Gleneagles, the patronage is very small, but it should be considered due to the few patrons who do use it.

Offline Busfanatic101

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »
Hume is an industrial suburb just like Mitchell and Fyshwick, although not as large, it should still have a service - at least once or twice each way a day. Like Gleneagles, the patronage is very small, but it should be considered due to the few patrons who do use it.
Patronage is low. Hence having a full day service is not viable, especially as it is out of the way. That does not mean having one or 2 services a day will work either, as in that case, chances are either the bus there or back at least, if not both, will not be when the majority of users would need it, hence they wouldn't catch the bus anyway (carpool, get a lift, uber, taxi), which would cut the low patronage even further making it even less viable. If they cut it, it will be inconvenient for some people but a small unheard minority. Ultimately, it is not a taxi service. Buses cost a lot to operate and need patronage to make it viable. Perhaps there is room for a private company using smaller more economical vehicles to fill in that gap. The Symonston motel could offer a shuttle service from the nearest 6 stop, as could TGA.


Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2018, 08:36:23 PM »
From how much money TC wasted on dead-runs due to poorly constructed shifts these past few years I'm sure a few extra unnecessary-for-everyone routes really wouldn't hurt that much.

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2018, 10:49:10 PM »
From how much money TC wasted on dead-runs due to poorly constructed shifts these past few years I'm sure a few extra unnecessary-for-everyone routes really wouldn't hurt that much.
I have noticed some patterns in empty bus running; in one recent trip on the Tuggeranong Parkway, I passed around six buses heading north between the Glenloch Interchange and Kambah, this was around 2:45pm. These buses must be en-route between Tuggeranong Depot and the north side.

I am not sure what the longest dead run that currently occurs is; I am aware of empty runs between Fraser West and Tuggeranong Depot, which is a significant distance.

It could reduce dead running if driver changeovers were to occur en-route; for example, another run that occurs is that a blue rapid service will arrive at Lanyon Marketplace, then return empty to Tuggeranong Depot, whilst another bus will travel empty to Lanyon Marketplace at the same time and form a northbound blue rapid. Dead running could be reduced if drivers swapped on the in service bus at Tuggeranong Depot; this would also reduce expenditure on diesel fuel and fleet maintenance.

Offline Northside

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 12:50:49 PM »
From how much money TC wasted on dead-runs due to poorly constructed shifts these past few years I'm sure a few extra unnecessary-for-everyone routes really wouldn't hurt that much.
I've lived in a few cities and have never seen any other city with so much dead running. In any other city (especially where buses are privatised), this simply doesn't happen. There would be no way in hell that a Fraser West run would return to a Tuggeranong depot.

Hopefully this new network addresses this. However, it would be more flexible if the rapid routes were less rigid - ie any run terminating in the city can simply run as an extra run on part of a rapid route to either Tuggers, Woden or Belco at little cost.

I'm also surprised they haven't seriously looked into opening a depot (even if just a very basic one) in Mitchell to avoid all the dead running between Gungahlin and Belco.

Offline Busnerd

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2018, 05:03:53 PM »
You'd be surprised about some of the dead running that exists for whatever reason, it is not exclusive to ACTION and happens in a number of private and government bus companies, not only limited to buses but trains as well.

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2018, 08:26:55 PM »
A Mitchell Depot is actually in the pipeline, but nothing is likely to happen until Woden Depot reopens.

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 10:57:52 PM »
Dead running is unavoidable, itís a question of whether you want a bus to sit at Fraser for 28 minutes (as an example) or whether you want the bus to run empty to kippax and start a run within 15minutes. Sure you burn the fuel but at the end of the day itís probably cheaper given driver wages to run it empty rather than having your resource stationary for an extended period.

In an ideal world there would be minimal dead running but with driver meal and crib breaks it makes dead running unavoidable, add that to time table constraints and you will find empty running is more than often the more efficient alternative to having a bus sitting around.


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Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2019 - the final version
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2018, 08:15:14 PM »
A bit more info about the Demand Responsive Transport has been made public via a tender.
https://tenders.act.gov.au/ets/tender/display/tender-details.do?id=91949&action=display-tender-details

DRT will replace Flexibus, but also expand to AMC, greenfield areas (developing suburbs) & local hospitals.

It will be being run by the minibus crew & service will be free to begin with.

If the trial is successful, the service may be expanded & fees will be charged.

Bookings are looking to be made via modern ways of via an app, website or telephone.

The tender shows some mumbo jumbo about the new payment system. But if anyone who might understand mumbo jumbo might like to explain it in simple english.

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