December 07, 2019, 08:56:40 am

Network 2019 - the final version

Started by King of Buses, October 16, 2018, 08:53:41 am

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triumph

Quote from: Bus 503 on June 21, 2019, 07:17:35 pmIs the R9 being well-patronised? Rarely do I see many people on it when it comes through Dickson from Watson in the evening peak. Perhaps it may be better for the R9 to only run between Dickson and Belconnen, unless there is real demand from Watson. 

This raises the question of the validity of R9 being described as Rapid.
As an example, comparing the R9 and rte 31 departing Cohen St Interchange at 3.17pm and 3.06pm respectively, the R9 is scheduled to take 29min to the Dickson Interchange, and the rte 31 just one minute longer! A negligible difference. If rte 31 is not Rapid then logically, nor is R9. It would be better labelled as route, say, 33. Or replace the 'R' with 'F' for frequent.

A similar situation exists with R6. We made the mistake of using the R6 between Woden and the National Gallery thinking the direct Rapid would be quick! In fact, the next R4 to Regatta Point stop and then double back on R2/R6 would have been much quicker.
Comparing services around 3pm between Woden and City Interchanges,
R4 17min
R5 34min
Rte58 40min
Rte57 48min
R6 50min.

R6 is the slowest. Quite inappropriate to call it a Rapid I think. It should simply be route, say, 59; or F6.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Oh so that's what the R stands for...

Bus 503

Quote from: triumph on July 04, 2019, 12:34:22 amThis raises the question of the validity of R9 being described as Rapid.
As an example, comparing the R9 and rte 31 departing Cohen St Interchange at 3.17pm and 3.06pm respectively, the R9 is scheduled to take 29min to the Dickson Interchange, and the rte 31 just one minute longer! A negligible difference. If rte 31 is not Rapid then logically, nor is R9. It would be better labelled as route, say, 33. Or replace the 'R' with 'F' for frequent.

A similar situation exists with R6. We made the mistake of using the R6 between Woden and the National Gallery thinking the direct Rapid would be quick! In fact, the next R4 to Regatta Point stop and then double back on R2/R6 would have been much quicker.
Comparing services around 3pm between Woden and City Interchanges,
R4 17min
R5 34min
Rte58 40min
Rte57 48min
R6 50min.

R6 is the slowest. Quite inappropriate to call it a Rapid I think. It should simply be route, say, 59; or F6.


Completely agree. I've always assumed that a "rapid" service should be both fast and frequent. Many of these "rapids" are just frequent but not significantly faster (i.e fewer stops, taking more direct paths) than regular routes.

Busnerd

I'm not sure any part of Watson classifies as High Density housing, the closest High Density would probably be near Barry Drive in the City.

triumph

Route 18 Gungahlin-Mitchell via Harrison and Franklin has been amended effective from Saturday last, 6th July, 2019.

The route has been extended full time (except first early morning weekdays service) to the Canberra Racecourse, Randwick Rd, to provide, according to Transport Canberra, a convenient alternative connection with the Light Rail at the Epic and Racecourse Station. To that end a stop has been added immediately after the turn into Randwick Rd.. The bus continues on to turn back at the former event stop at the Racecourse (but no stop is provided in Randwick Rd back at Flemington Rd). All Bimberi diversions occur on outbound journeys only, which inhibits, a little, the Light Rail connection objective.

Transport Canberra however is a bit confused. The 'printable timetable and map' issued with the announcement shows the outbound terminus as the stop in Randwick Rd at Flemington Rd.. The map shows it at the Racecourse turn back. Inbound journeys are shown as commencing at the same point EXCEPT that Bimberi is shown as the commencing point for diverted services.

So far only a Randwick Rd mapping/stop identity error. BUT the internal display in the bus and the next bus display at Gungahlin Place give the destination as Gungahlin! Not helpful at Gungahlin. The bus destination refers to a 'loop' service and, in a practical sense, it operates as a 'loop' out and back service. The 'non-printable' website timetable is presented loop style and does not show Sat and Sun services as extended, though these are in the 'printable' version.
Further, the information panel listing services from the Platform at Gungahlin Place lists route 18 as'Mitchell via Harrison and Franklin' but shows route 19 and other appropriate routes as '..... Loop'.

Somebody in TC appears not to have paid attention (the previous version of the timetable was also confused), with the golden opportunity to straighten all this out with the amendment of the route and issue of a refreshed timetable not taken. In fact it is now slightly worse (mapping/identity error mentioned).

The intriguing aspect is how did this quite significant amendment come about? A retiring gesture from a retiring Assembly Member perhaps?

 


Sylvan Loves Buses

That explains why that blade was there and not at the terminus, thanks for clearing that up.

Northside

This is good news. The old connection to Mitchell via Well Station and back again was just horrendous. Now they just need to do it properly and allow Bimberi connections both ways and make this a regular route (not a stupid loop route), by adjusting the route to run the same way through Mitchell (ie via Brookes St) in both directions.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Just read the email notification of the route 18 change. I still feel it should revert back to the old days of Viscars street, but of course TC will never do that - they never do anything that assists the less-able and necessary customers. The lack of a tram stop for the southern part of Mitchell is a great representation of that.


Oh boo hoo, no one catches the bus to Fyshwick anymore...

triumph

Quote from: triumph on July 09, 2019, 12:05:27 amRoute 18 Gungahlin-Mitchell via Harrison and Franklin has been amended effective from Saturday last, 6th July, 2019.

.....................

The intriguing aspect is how did this quite significant amendment come about? A retiring gesture from a retiring Assembly Member perhaps?

Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on July 13, 2019, 03:28:33 amJust read the email notification of the route 18 change. .................TC will never do that - they never do anything that assists the less-able and necessary customers. The lack of a tram stop for the southern part of Mitchell is a great representation of that.

Now Sylvan's post gives rise to another speculation as to why this route change got a guernsey - are we about to learn that the Mitchell Light Rail Stop to be located near Sandford St and promised for construction once the Light Rail service was in operation is seriously delayed, or even cancelled?

It is interesting that there appears to be no political announcements/publicity over the change to route 18. Perhaps understandable given previous statements indicating no changes until the new network was bedded in and reviewed, which would not be completed untill much later in the year.

Busnerd

The stop is going ahead, not sure when though but it will be happening, and rather obviously to be positioned in the stop sized area at Sandford Street.

Bus 400

What I've hopefully missed, but if the timings on the network were throughly worked out. How can 1 just add a 10 minute loop to a bus route without affecting the finishing time?

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Northside

I assume that there is a fair amount of fat built into some of these runs. The 18 in particular has had low use from what I've seen. So that 10 mins can be made up pretty easily.

triumph

Well, well, well. Whilst it is widely believed that the 'R' of the R series routes stand for 'Rapid' as in a quicker trip. This is not the case with TC's torturous use of plain english.

Quoting from Team Leader, Customer Experience, Transport Canberra:
The Rapid 6 route refers to the frequency of the service, not the length of time the route takes, the Rapid routes are designed to move residents across the City connecting between town centres.

So, it seems Rapid in TC speak means more often, not quicker.

Make of this what you will.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Yeah, TC's word for quicker routes is 'streamlined' aka all networks since 2006, but mostly network 2012 or 2014 (whichever one had that massive A3 proposal pamphlet).

Sure, the R6 is rapid, but I've seen how terrible the connections for it are in afternoon peak - Woden bound. There are some shifts that get caught in traffic before even starting at City West and some that get overloaded with passengers before hitting Kingston. On one occasion on arrival to Narrabundah I was on an R6 which was following a R6 which was at least 30 minutes late (if not more) with the one I was on being 15 minutes late cause he got to City West from his previous run that late. When I got off at the college, another R6 which was barely on time arrived too.
I've read those statistics of 'on-time-ness', and from what I've experienced, I find them hard to believe.
Quote from: a few years ago96% of routes this month were on time
my ass...

The Tuggeranong to Woden corridors' R4 is supposedly rapid too, and certainly is to an extent. Between 10am and 3pm, those 10 minute periods feel like 20 minutes, and I could swear travelling from Tuggeranong to Belconnen didn't use to take as long as it does now. #bringback705 (without the cooleman extension and half hourly all day everyday)

Busnerd

Quote from: triumph on July 16, 2019, 11:37:43 pmWell, well, well. Whilst it is widely believed that the 'R' of the R series routes stand for 'Rapid' as in a quicker trip. This is not the case with TC's torturous use of plain english.

Quoting from Team Leader, Customer Experience, Transport Canberra:
The Rapid 6 route refers to the frequency of the service, not the length of time the route takes, the Rapid routes are designed to move residents across the City connecting between town centres.

So, it seems Rapid in TC speak means more often, not quicker.

Make of this what you will.
That's what I always understood it to mean, Rapid meaning frequent, it was never about the route length.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: triumph on July 31, 2019, 11:02:27 pmOver 20min of allocated journey time not needed. One wonders just how Transport Canberra assessed new network journey times?

Yes, it's ridiculous.
Many drivers who start runs from City West wait an additional 5+ mins before leaving due to the timetable allowing them an extra 7 minutes or something to get to their next stop.
Another I had on Monday: Rode a R6 P3 from Woden around 7pm, he purposely left Woden 5 mins late, got to the Hospital 2:40 mins late, but it didn't stop there. He literally drove the full distance of Hindmarsh Drive (Hospital to Red Hill) at 30-40kph, and the timer sat at 2:40 mins late the whole way - Hindmarsh Drive is an 80 zone...
Same with R5s in the evening after getting away from the Parlimentary zone. Going at legal speed, you can be 5 mins late and get to Woden 1 min late...

TC put so much effort into making the trams stay on time, why couldn't they do the same with the buses, as they've pretty much always done? oh yeah those bean counters don't care I forgot...

Busnerd

TC don't run the trams, Canberra Metro does, they make the trams run on time, not Transport Canberra.

Sylvan Loves Buses

August 03, 2019, 11:54:55 am #117 Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 06:15:32 pm by Busnerd
Oh my mistake sorry. Should've known the trams had no affiliation with 'Transport Canberra' what-so-ever.

Admin Note: Image posted without photographers permission. - Removed.

Busnerd

No one said they don't have any affiliation, they're contracted to run the service BY Transport Canberra, CMET is the actual operator who runs the service, TC just sets the contract/rules/expectations.

triumph

Not sure if this has been previously mentioned.

Similar to local services terminating at Emu Bank Bus Station, the timetable book for Gungahlin lists services terminating at Gungahlin Place BUT the Getting Around section of the TC web site shows R8, 19, 25 to 28 proceeding beyond Gungahlin Place to 'Gungahlin/Valley'.

Gungahlin/Valley is not Burgman Valley. But 'Find a Stop' wouldn't work when I tried so I haven't yet been able to confirm the location of Gungahlin/Valley but assume it is the layover area in The Valley Avenue.

Busnerd

It is also displayed on the screens in the bus that the last stop is the Valley Ave layover, which explains the R8 blade at the 'terminating' platform

triumph

Took an R8 to Gungahlin today and decided to try out the trip beyond Gungahlin Place to Gungahlin/Valley.

On arrival at Gungahlin Place the bus emptied except for me and the driver started to reverse to layover at the platform. I asked why and he came and looked at the in-bus display and then consulted his run page. We continued then as far as The Valley Ave at which point the driver said he had never done this bit and was unsure where to go. Ended up at stop in Manning Clark via Camilleri Way.

Looking at the timetables, nearly all buses arriving at Gungahlin Place, Platform 3 should continue to Gungahlin/Valley, but many don't. Some layover at the platform and others seem to be back at Platform 4 very quickly.

From the experience described and past observations, it seems that continuing to Gungahlin/Valley is not the routine the timetable calls for. Has circumstances and practice changed and the timetable failed to keep up?

Associated with this, the practice has developed of laying over on the West side of Gungahlin Place, South from Efkarpidis St. This creates a very real traffic danger. Drivers from the west in Efkarpidis St.face a Give Way sign with hold line but the view of oncoming traffic fron their right is totally obscured by parked buses. They are thus trapped, obliged to Give Way but can't adequately see what's coming.
 

Bus 503

Can anyone confirm whether ACTION has made minor changes to shifts this week, specifically on weekdays? I got on an R5 this week, surprised to see a Tuggeranong ARTIC operating the shift when I am pretty sure it was previously run by a Belconnen ARTIC (perhaps I'm dreaming about this though).
Anyway though, certain trip formations that used to happen on some shifts are definitely no longer happening, and two shifts that I thought were wheelchair accessible are now getting non-wheelchair accessible buses.

Barry Drive

There was a new GTFS released recently. I haven't checked to see what has changed, but there have been reports of changes to bus types during the week.

Changing runs between depots is possible, but I can't tell that from the GTFS.

King of Buses

There have definitely been changes on weekdays. Haven't noticed any change to which depot runs what, only that a fair few trips (in peak mainly) no longer operate before/after certain other trips, so some relearning has been required for those who pay attention to that sort of thing, such as myself. Bus allocations have also changed on a lot of trips. For example I now get an artic on a trip I get each day rather than a "std" (which was normally a "EURO" anyway so no real loss).

Believe a lot of the changes that have been made have been to add in some additional "short" R4 services from the City to Tuggeranong in PM peak. I'm sure there's other reasons too though, as AM services are also affected.

And may be wrong, but was it something out of the 511-516 range you got the other day? If so, those are now at Tuggeranong Depot. Could also have been just something covering a run as a one off too.

triumph

A senior driver told me today that TC is getting ready to update the timetable after the Christmas break. Senior drivers get first choice of shifts and are now being asked to nominate for the new shifts. (Didn't get around to any possible route changes.)

Perhaps it is time to start topic 'Network 2020'.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Quote from: triumph on November 21, 2019, 11:25:07 pm(181) last of peak services. 11 Passengers. Not encouraging patronage at all.

I'm surprised, yet not surprised at the same time. I remember quite a bit of hype leading up to the network where the Lanyon area people demanded an expresso bus back after being threatened of not having one after the proposal, and now look at them... The 181 is quite underutilised, whereas the 180 has much more patronage, funny enough with more Renaults being used on them in the evening (during school terms).

Barry Drive

Chris Steel has announced that buses will not use Anketell St in Greenway from April 2020.

Date of the next bus network change anyone?

Sylvan Loves Buses

Well they better put a bus stop on Cowlishaw street or sooner to compensate. It's been dreadful not having that stop outside the shops since they removed it.

Barry Drive

They can install a stop there, but buses won't go anywhere near it.

They'll probably try banning dead running via Anketell as well.