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Light Rail Stage 1 Construction

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Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2018, 05:18:07 PM »
A senior manager of Metro Operations has now made it clear that Canberra has the widest width.

There are 3 widths available in the Urbos 3 family and Canberra does indeed have the widest version at 2.65m.

Offline triumph

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2018, 11:37:39 PM »
One of the issues leading to the completion delay is the complex interaction between various approvals, with some  required by other approvals and accreditation. Apparently because light rail had never before been done in Canberra, the ACT had no procedure in place to issue some of the approvals involved. This apparently lead to some activities having to be put on hold while approval issue or exemption processes were put in place.

(A theoretical example illustrating the sort of issues that can arise, was my experience on moving from Queensland. I had an about to expire Queensland Flagperson licence/permit which couldn't be transferred, because at that time the ACT did not issue Flagperson licences/permits. Nor could it be renewed in Queensland as I no longer was a Queensland resident. Any national accreditation, or say an insurance policy, requiring the applicant, among other things, to demonstrate Flagpersons were in possession of such a qualification would have been stymied, leading to delay while it was sorted out. Boat licences are another example, fortunately overcome here by NSW issuing their licence to ACT residents.)

Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2019, 01:19:57 PM »
What should be a positive light rail article, saying there are only $7m in variations, has been turned into a negative headline by the ever helpful Canberra Crimes.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/politics/act/30-000-for-a-bird-s-eye-view-of-light-rail-20190101-p50p1w.html

Offline triumph

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2019, 10:08:01 PM »
What should be a positive light rail article, saying there are only $7m in variations, has been turned into a negative headline by the ever helpful Canberra Crimes.

Hear hear. Check out the Sydney project for real issues.

Negative comments also abound in letters to the editor. Most commentators and letter writers choose to quote the whole cost and imply the entire cost could be freely transferred to non-transport needs such as health. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is also often baldly stated that buses are better/cheaper.

The problem is that non-transport benefits and non-direct cost benefits such as ride quality, are being ignored, thus  apples are being compared with oranges.

The light rail has to supply and maintain its entire system including its vehicles, right of way, all that landscaping, and, during construction,  adjustment to services. We are never told how much money will be saved from the ACT budget from acquiring fewer buses, from no longer maintaining the previous median and landscaping, from not constructing otherwise needed bus (and perhaps extra traffic) lanes along the route, nor what budget expenditure is avoided by the maintenance, upgrading, and cleaning of ACT services undertaken during construction (yes, the savings may be indirect where they accrue to the Government businesses such as ICON, which in turn benefits potential 'dividends' receivable by the Government).

Now by comparison, how much cost does Transport Canberra/ACTION attribute to ACTION for maintenance of roads used by buses? (For many suburban streets, bus use is the main heavy vehicle use which requires stronger pavement construction and accelerates deterioration. Just look carefully to see pavement deterioration/failures in progress near quite a few  stops.) Does ACTION maintain the median in Adelaide Ave between the bus lanes? Was the cost of recently provided bus lanes attributed to ACTION? Does ACTION pay fuel tax and how much is likely to be recouped from Federal Grants? What flexibility value (and flexibility has its downside of insecurity of routes) and poorer ride values are attributed? And so on.

I do not have the answers, but the point is that comparisons are complex indeed, and the local paper is letting citizens down by not addressing the pros and cons adequately, and allowing the almost complete dominance of negative letters to the editor.

Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2019, 08:35:49 PM »
It is looking like much of the electrical work for stage 1 will be need to be re-done; I am predicting an opening delayed until 2020.

With the L1 to be most likely operated using buses from April 27th, in addition to the new network, it is looking highly likely that the withdrawn Renaults at both Fyshwick and Tuggeranong will be reactivated; I am tipping that L1 will be operated exclusively with articulated and 14.5m vehicles.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/white-elephant-fears-canberra-light-rail-network-won-t-be-certified-20181213-p50m69.html
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 08:38:11 PM by Toyota Camry »

Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #105 on: January 06, 2019, 09:02:38 PM »
It must be the apprentice getting his kickers in a knot. Because who ever passed that info to the Canberra crimes doesnít know much.

For high voltage power the depth is 750mm but can be as low as 100mm if there is concrete on top.

The article talks about the conduits being mmís from the surface but when you look at the picture you can see the top of the gutter and a pit of some sort and they are much lower than that. Certainly not 750mm but not mmís as implied. Looks to me to be at least 100mm which is all that is required if concreted.

Also going by the conduit sizes it looks like the cables are actually for the traffic lights in which case it would be low voltage anyway so 500mm deep but again can be shallower if concrete is on top.

And guess what the article says the ďpitĒ which is the wrong description has been covered by concrete. So only needs to be 100mm which it is!

As for the pits filling with water, all I can say is derrrr. No crap Sherlock. All pits fill with water. They are not water proof, only need to look at the covers to see that. They have holes in them to open them (which obviously lets in water) and they donít have water proof seals. Pits also have holes in them to let the water wick out but that takes time. It also stops then floating up if there is lots of water in the surrounding ground which also means they fill with water. Who would have thought hey?

The cables that are installed in under ground pits are designed to go in water. They will have an outer jacket, be hell filled and then contain what is normally found in an above ground cable.

All joints are done above ground in pillars (of which there are many on the light rail route) or in above ground wiring cabinets which are at every stop and they can be in the pit using water proof connectors.

Looks like a beat up by someone and the union who have an axe to grind.

Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #106 on: January 06, 2019, 09:05:08 PM »
Ps should say I am no sparky, but I am a licenced and experienced data communications tech with 27 years experience.

Part of the data cabling licence is knowing the rules for power depth so we can keep appropriate separation. And I have worked with outdoor data cables and pits. Only ever find a dry one if there has been no rain for weeks.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:06:30 PM by ajw373 »

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #107 on: January 07, 2019, 10:00:50 AM »
It is looking like much of the electrical work for stage 1 will be need to be re-done;

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/white-elephant-fears-canberra-light-rail-network-won-t-be-certified-20181213-p50m69.html
The Canberra Times has very little credibility when it comes to reporting Light Rail/Tram matters. And using the "White Elephant" phrase in the headline doesn't help matters.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:18:29 PM by Barry Drive »

Offline triumph

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2019, 11:11:40 AM »
At least half the electrical traction supply, being from the depot to Gungahlin has been powered on. How could that be permitted if safety fundamentals have not been met? Someone suitably qualified had to test and sign off on the work before powering on took place.

I think a bookie would offer long odds on delay till 2020.
 

Offline triumph

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #109 on: January 07, 2019, 11:20:59 AM »
With the L1 to be most likely operated using buses from April 27th, in addition to the new network, it is looking highly likely that the withdrawn Renaults at both Fyshwick and Tuggeranong will be reactivated;

Having a bunch of reactivatable buses in storage is only half of the equation. Would there be enough surplus drivers available (with long term overtime being unsuitable on OH&S grounds)?

Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2019, 12:21:27 PM »
It only takes 1 day of training to upgrade a car license to an MR licence; new drivers can be produced quickly if they are not learning a large number of routes, alternatively drivers can easily be sourced from Sydney.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2019, 05:25:44 PM »
I am predicting an opening delayed until 2020...

If that'll delay network '19 even further, many people including myself will be pleased.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #112 on: January 08, 2019, 07:35:38 PM »
Canberra Times "walking back" prevous article:

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/non-compliant-light-rail-could-still-get-accreditation-20190107-p50pyr.html

They are still trying to push the line it's "non-compliant" without any real proof.

The statement that it may cause a risk "to contractors digging in the area, possibly in decades' time" seems to ignore that the high voltage cables are (mostly?) buried in the median between the tracks.

Offline Stan butler

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #113 on: January 08, 2019, 08:02:32 PM »
Interesting today just after the storm - I noticed the section of the tracks just outside the entrance to Epic was completely under water. Yep totally submerged by a few Centimetres.

I know I have written about this before but I got shot down for mentioning it then, but I will say it again. After a short storm, I cannot see how they can allow the train to operate with submerged tracks - even if it is only a few cms.

Alas, the bus I was in at the time was still able to get through.

Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #114 on: January 08, 2019, 08:28:59 PM »
Canberra Times "walking back" prevous article:

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/non-compliant-light-rail-could-still-get-accreditation-20190107-p50pyr.html

They are still trying to push the line it's "non-compliant" without any real proof.

The statement that it may cause a risk "to contractors digging in the area, possibly in decades' time" seems to ignore that the high voltage cables are (mostly?) buried in the median between the tracks.

I noticed that too. Yesterday it was public safety in publically accessible locations, today the concern is contractors in the future digging up concrete.

One would hope any future contractor would dial before they dig, or maybe look at the plans which will show where the lower than usual conduits are.

Offline ajw373

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Re: Light Rail Stage 1 Construction
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2019, 08:34:55 PM »
Interesting today just after the storm - I noticed the section of the tracks just outside the entrance to Epic was completely under water. Yep totally submerged by a few Centimetres.

I know I have written about this before but I got shot down for mentioning it then, but I will say it again. After a short storm, I cannot see how they can allow the train to operate with submerged tracks - even if it is only a few cms.

Alas, the bus I was in at the time was still able to get through.

Not going to shoot you down in flames but curious as to why you would think submerged tracks after heavy rain is a safety risk and why it would be ok for a bus to go through similar heavy sitting water?

The way I see it the risk to steel on steel in water is slippage, but the risk of rubber on water on a road is aquaplanning. One could have a bad result the other a vehicle not moving very far.