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Alternative / Electric bus trial

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Offline Busnerd

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2018, 11:58:09 PM »
I rode 711 on a 39 today, seemed to have less rattles than 710, although the nearside rear wheel did keep scrubbing the underside of the bus whenever it went over a large bump, will be interesting to see if they decide to order more, and/or keep these ones long term.

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2018, 10:38:29 AM »
I rode 711 on a 39 today, seemed to have less rattles than 710, although the nearside rear wheel did keep scrubbing the underside of the bus whenever it went over a large bump, will be interesting to see if they decide to order more, and/or keep these ones long term.

It would be a pity if non-electrical aspects such as suspension, body durability, and the like were to dominate the evaluation.

The question of moving towards an all electric fleet is interesting. There are aspects less obvious than vehicle evaluation and suitability. A major one relates to recharging, particularly the investment necessary to set up multiple charge points for a for a significant fleet, say 50 buses to start with, but within a few years a great many more, and the power supply thereto. What will be the energy demand? How much will the electricity supply system need to be upgraded to meet that? How much can covering the depot roof with solar help? New feeders and sub-station is a worst case. Overall how cost effective? It is on these aspects rather than direct vehicle supply, operation, and maintenance costs on which the evaluation might turn.  I have seen no recharge data so can't begin to guess at any answers. 

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2018, 10:48:30 AM »
Checked the contract register. Both the Volvo and Carbridge contracts have been extended to 1 December 2018.

So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2018, 06:19:56 PM »
So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.

Went past Tuggeranong Depot this afternoon (on a 313 to Lanyon that was running 16 mins early!) and noticed a Bustech in TfNSW livery and a BYD in quasi-TC livery. Given 711 was still in service today, I'd say that 710 and 712 have been unwrapped and are currently being decommissioned.

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2018, 01:12:53 PM »
Given 711 was still in service today, I'd say that 710 and 712 have been unwrapped and are currently being decommissioned.

Might be a good idea to keep a lookout and report any sightings of 711.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2018, 01:42:44 PM »
Might be a good idea to keep a lookout and report any sightings of 711.


Itís out again today.


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Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2018, 04:31:23 PM »
Today, the below trip was operated by a Renault PR100.2; until recently it had been a regular PR100.2 run, but several weeks ago had been taken over by bus 712. I suspect that bus 712 may not be running; this may be why there was a PR100.2 on it again.

(313) 13:17 Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus

Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2018, 04:34:16 PM »
(313) 13:17 Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus
My apologies, that information was incorrect; these are the correct trips that were operated by 712, but is today was a Tuggeranong PR100.2 again.

(313) 13:13 Lanyon Market Place to Fraser West Terminus
(14) 15:04 Fraser West Terminus to Emu Bank McDonalds

Offline Snorzac

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2018, 05:25:29 PM »
712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off, this data is irrelevant even before it was withdrawn as the buses were never assigned to a particular shift or driver and any pattern which may have occurred was purely coincidental

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2018, 02:12:59 AM »
I have a pretty good list of routes that the few drivers who did use these buses, but if you want to know them you'll have to private message me.

Offline Bus 503

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2018, 05:56:03 AM »
712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off, this data is irrelevant even before it was withdrawn as the buses were never assigned to a particular shift or driver and any pattern which may have occurred was purely coincidental

No, there are some shifts that do regularly receive 710Ė712.

Offline Snorzac

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2018, 06:35:48 AM »
But there is no pattern to it, they donít have set shifts for the trial, if the driver is trained and the bus is available then itís allocated to that driver. Particularly in 712s case this is a very limited number of drivers. Any pattern that appeared is purely coincidental.


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Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2018, 01:41:31 PM »
It must have been a major coincidence that bus 712 was operating those trips on every working day; with those odds, I will be purchasing a lottery ticket.

Offline Busfanatic101

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2018, 02:45:09 PM »
But there is no pattern to it, they donít have set shifts for the trial, if the driver is trained and the bus is available then itís allocated to that driver. Particularly in 712s case this is a very limited number of drivers. Any pattern that appeared is purely coincidental.


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That is a pattern - bus regularly being driven by select drivers often doing select shifts. While there is some element of chance, some outliers, there are definitely clear trends in allocation and not enough chance to be considered purely coincidental.


I can't believe we're all debating this... seriously

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2018, 05:13:09 PM »
I can't believe we're all debating this... seriously

Yeah I know right. I know which drivers who were allocated to each bus by face, and so, most of their runs, so it was easy to know which of the routes albeit only really their last few evening runs, but any other time they would use their normal allocated buses - Mostly P2 and Scania/MAN CNG shifts.

Offline Toyota Camry

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2018, 02:00:02 PM »
Bus 711 operated the below trip today.

(7) 12:22 National Museum to Cohen Street Bus Station

Offline Bus 503

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2018, 08:21:41 PM »
Bus 711 operated the below trip today.

(7) 12:22 National Museum to Cohen Street Bus Station

Yes, it's been on that all week.


That is a pattern - bus regularly being driven by select drivers often doing select shifts. While there is some element of chance, some outliers, there are definitely clear trends in allocation and not enough chance to be considered purely coincidental.


I can't believe we're all debating this... seriously

As far as I can tell, the outliers occur when the driver of a shift is what I call a "fill-in driver", who fills in for the regular driver, which is why reporting those occurrences when the trial buses are operating those shifts is not necessary because it probably won't happen again.

I am wondering if Barry Drive can advise us whether reporting specific times that certain buses can be spotted is allowed, as is being done here. I have a previous personal message stating that reporting specific locations of certain buses is not allowed (when I asked if it was OK to post sightings of the electric buses), but sightings are being reported on PR3s and now the electric buses. Also, it seems that while reporting regular occurrences of certain buses operating the same routes are banned ('shift buses'), it is not banned to report PR3 trips or electric bus trips, so I see it all as being quite contradictory.
Can we please have a clean-up of the muddy rules surrounding this topic?

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2018, 09:11:02 PM »
I can tell you from experience I've been banned for revealing that sort of thing as it's a breach of privacy, so I would say don't risk it.
712 once appeared on a 64N one afternoon, a few minutes right after my regular bus passed my stop only to go the other way at the Livingston intersection. It certainly happened often, but I can agree it probably won't happen again, the trial is very near ending.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2018, 10:29:45 PM »
712 has been withdrawn and the wrap has been taken off...

If I hadn't been paying much attention to this page or was still not on this forum, I would've just assumed this was another trial bus or something. Funny to see a bus with the new NSW livery again, looks so different to when it had its 'I'm Electric' wrap on it.
..
Tuggeranong Depot has had a fence upgrade to part of the behind, most of the barbed wired fence is still there, but a similar styled one to Belconnen is there too now.

Such a shame though, really enjoyed the electric buses while they lasted, hope it's not too long before we get them again. (I'm saying this now cause fat chance I'm getting 711 again)

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2018, 11:40:53 AM »
711 out  today, At 11.40am passing Hockey Centre rte 7 to Museum.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2018, 01:17:36 PM »
So far there is no further contract variation or purchase contract listed. But given 711's continued use, I'd have to think one of these is likely.

Offline Busnerd

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2018, 05:53:43 PM »
Thanks for getting those photos, I've only seen one very small photo of the TORO in fake TC Livery, so it's nice to have another version of it, still find it weird they even painted them up in that livery to begin with, being a demo you'd think it would stay white, although the blue emu livery is a similar blue so they could still sticker over it and it should match closely enough, unless of course they send it to another airport.

I didn't mind the buses so would be happy to keep them on if TC deems the trial a success and wishes to buy them, although I'd expect they'd possibly want to make some changes to the bodies, although that's just a personal opinion with no basis, but having a single leaf rear door could easily add another 2 seats.

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2018, 10:30:34 PM »
Checked the contract register. Both the Volvo and Carbridge contracts have been extended to 1 December 2018.

So if not the end of this month, perhaps not long afterwards, allowing time for the buses to decommissioned before being returned to their owners.

It is happening for 710 and 712, but what about 711 which is still in service?

Is it simply that the maximum use of 711 before the end of the month is being pursued? Or can it be speculated, due to the original contract being for a 12month trial period, that 711 will remain in service to see out a full 12months service period?

I doubt that acquisition of any of the trial buses is likely. From a fleet perspective, the trial buses are operational orphans requiring separate driver training, different servicing and maintenance requirements, and (particularly 711) different capacities to the present regular fleet buses to integrate into schedules. It has previously been mentioned in this thread that no electric/hybrid fleet order is in place. Further, there is no guarantee, following a tender process, that a near future order would result in a tranche into which the present trial buses could integrate.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2018, 11:01:05 AM »
I checked the Carbridge contract to see if it could provide answers. It doesn't.

Only the original contract is published, not the variation  - which is probably where the answer might be found.

The original contract ties the lease term to the first vehicle, but it also stated the second vehicle (711) would be delivered by December 2017.

One thing of note: the contract states TC must deregister the vehicle before handing it back. This has occurred for 710 & 712.

Conclusion: I think 711 will be around for a few more months.

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2018, 01:02:15 PM »
Conclusion: I think 711 will be around for a few more months.

711 was at Cohen Street Bus Station last Tuesday morning - been seen out and about since? Hope so.

Offline Busnerd

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2018, 03:56:06 PM »
Was in service on Northbourne Ave around 2pm today.

Offline triumph

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2018, 09:45:58 PM »
711 (assumed, it still had the 'electric' wrap) noted parked in Tuggeranong Depot mid afternoon. There have been no reports of in-service sightings so far this week - has it been out and about?

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Alternative / Electric bus trial
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2018, 10:18:56 PM »
711 (assumed, it still had the 'electric' wrap) noted parked in Tuggeranong Depot mid afternoon. There have been no reports of in-service sightings so far this week - has it been out and about?

Yes.