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What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route

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Offline Bus 400

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What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« on: January 14, 2017, 09:34:48 PM »
Lately I've been pondering this question, but it is a tough one as routes into the City altered over the years & streets have been altered themselves.

I was thinking of the City to Woden service that has run from 1962, but it serviced the original Woden Interchange on Melrose Dr & came into City via City West side of London Circuit.

Another suggestion has been the Woden - Kambah East/West - Tuggeranong services post Tuggeranong Interchange opening. These have slightly altered as the 62 north was moved to service Tuggy Pool back in 2000. Plus 60 & 62 south have been altered to service Woden Plaza Fresh Food Plaza around 2000 as well. So the 2000 versions could count.

Just doing a quick check of my network maps, this looks harder than I originally thought. Even the City-Palnerston bus has changed through Mitchell, with the road network changing in the 90's & then as Hoskins Street was changed as Well Station Drive was created last decade.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 11:11:41 PM »
How closely do you need it to match? In 1979, Route 385 commenced - it went from City Interchange to Dickson via Braddon, Ainslie and Hackett. Apart from the route taken when exiting the City (Bunda St outbound, Cooyong St inbound), this route is identical to the 2 from City to Dickson.

In 1996 this route became a loop (307/308) then in Network 1999 it was the northern segment of Route 38 (the southern segment is what is now Route 5 / 938), but the route from Ainslie Av to Dickson remained the same.

No other route from 1979 has remained as closely as 385; 333 (Blue Rapid) and 234 (3) are the next nearest, but they've had more extensive re-routings.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 05:01:23 AM »
My knowledge goes back to Network '98, cause those are all the timetables that I have collected over the years I have.

Route wise to answer your question:
The routes that I definitely know haven't changed since at least 2000 are the 60 and 62,
recently I believe the 26, 16 an 17 haven't changed either. I did just check my 2000 26 book, and noticed the only the different is the diversion to Canberra College once every school day, and if you don't count a platform change as a significant route change, then the 26 would count too. I'll have to have a look at all my 16/17 timetables again to be sure. I'll let you know.

In case you ask, I count a non-changed route provided its route and number hasn't changed. There's a few more that haven't changed 'route' wise, but the numbers have. Like recently I noticed the 705 has become what the 82 in Network '98 was, I was quite surprised when I saw that.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 12:19:50 PM »
In case you ask, I count a non-changed route provided its route and number hasn't changed. There's a few more that haven't changed 'route' wise, but the numbers have. Like recently I noticed the 705 has become what the 82 in Network '98 was, I was quite surprised when I saw that.

The 82 in Network '98 IIRC was a peak hour service from Calwell/Isabella Plains to Fyshwick...
I presume you meant the current route 705 is essentially the route 83 from Network '98 (although, the 83 went to Tuggeranong Depot instead of Centrelink Tuggeranong - plus there is the difference in terms of the Belconnen Bus Stations...).


Offline Buzz Killington

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 12:23:06 PM »
In case you ask, I count a non-changed route provided its route and number hasn't changed. There's a few more that haven't changed 'route' wise, but the numbers have. Like recently I noticed the 705 has become what the 82 in Network '98 was, I was quite surprised when I saw that.

The 83* didn't last very long, and there was a number of years after the old 'Commuter Express' routes were cut with Network '98 before they reintroduced a limited number of Xpresso routes.

The 705 for many years was straight up the Parkway, and now with it being diverted via Weston, I don't think that would count.

Offline Bus 400

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 03:35:15 PM »


Recently I believe the 26, 16 an 17 haven't changed either. I did just check my 2000 26 book, and noticed the only the different is the diversion to Canberra College once every school day, and if you don't count a platform change as a significant route change, then the 26 would count too.

The 26 actually changed a few years ago (roughly when the 926 was introduced) to service Streeton Dr instead of inside Stirling, which was taken over by the 27.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 10:20:33 AM »
Yes, 83, my bad.

Anyway, I just had a look through all my timetables, or at least all the ones I could find without having to dig... and the results that I found of untouched routes are: 15 (northside), 16, 17, 60 and 62, since at least 1998/2000 - (I only have Network '98 timetables of the 15 and 16).
There's a few bits and bobs for each route, including the change of the old Belconnen interchange to the stations which does change the routes design but only marginally, and a few minor extensions indicated by dotted lines which jumped around between networks, but other than that, those are the only untouched routes in the last 18 years.

And yes, I noticed that change with the 26 swapping with the 27 too, otherwise it would've been one of the untouched too.

Offline triumph

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 10:54:52 PM »
Route 15 from the former Belconnen Interchange was via the former Busway adjacent to Joynton Smith Drive to first stop in Florey. Since then, it is W up Cohen St to the Westfield Bus Station (virtually on/above the former Busway route) and then diverges S along Lathlain St to rejoin Cohen St, thence W past Cohen St Bus Station to Nettlefold St and on to Coulter Dr. The route then continues N in Coulter Dr across the Luxton St/Southern Cross Dr intersection to finally meet up with the former route via the former Busway.

Bits and bobs? I think not.

Abandoning the Busway and adding 2 Bus Stations with approx 1.8km (Westfield Station - Coulter Dr/Busway) of different routing, which is also approx 0.5km longer, is in no way an insignificant change to route 15. Or any other route formerly using the Busway.

There are definitional problems to 'untouched'. For example, does a recent diversion of one service to a school amount to a 'touch', or the relocation of a bus stop from beyond a side street to before count as a 'touch'? Both apply to route 15. Those might better classify as 'bits and bobs'.

Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 11:37:50 PM »
alright geez...

Bus 400 wanted an answer, and I gave him one. There was no real specifications to how 'untouched' the routes were supposed to be, so I just gave some examples of ones from my timetables that showed no changes, excluding insignificant ones + the interchange change.
We all know how big of a change the belconnen interchanges did to the routes, and although I personally would classify that as a 'big' change, as do you, I left it there for Bus 400 to decide.

Offline Buzz Killington

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 11:10:25 AM »
It's 400's thread so I don't want to assume his criteria, but I think actual changes to roadways and stations could probably be excluded as a route change. A route change in my mind is a decision to amend a route based on actual or assumed patronage benefits, rather than infrastructure changes such as the Belconnen town centre changes or the opening of Tuggeranong Interchange.

And can we all stop saying "untouched" so much?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:11:11 AM by Buzz Killington »

Offline ajw373

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 06:23:43 PM »
Probably get shot down in flames. But the 16 follows much the same route as the old 453 (post construction of Florey). Only difference I can recall is in the Belco town centre due to the closure of the busway.

Offline Bus 400

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 09:51:16 PM »
Probably get shot down in flames. But the 16 follows much the same route as the old 453 (post construction of Florey). Only difference I can recall is in the Belco town centre due to the closure of the busway.
Actually.......... Only joking.

I'll exclude Town Centre changes (Civic included) & street realignments will be excluded from being https://youtu.be/ykW4rtW2eu0

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Offline Sylvan Loves Buses

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 06:39:09 AM »
I'll exclude Town Centre changes

well then, the 15 (northside), 16, 17, 60 and 62 definitely are your answers. ;)

Offline The Love Guru

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 07:56:24 AM »
424/749 would go close. I think it is pretty much untouched since at least network 88. Only thing they changed was the stopping pattern as at one stage it was an express service.

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Offline Barry Drive

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 03:40:08 PM »
I'd have to check (not sure my records go back far enough), but I'd put the 424 as starting 1981 or 82.

I seem to recall a young, naive but enthusiastic bus spotter writing to ACTION suggesting such a route and was told they would consider it once the Bindubi St / William Hovell Dr link was built.

Anyway, yes the 424 once operated as pick up only along Bindubi St towards Woden and set down only towards Belconnen.

The only question is whether it has continued uninterrupted since it commenced.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 03:46:34 PM by Barry Drive »

Offline Buzz Killington

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 05:48:18 PM »
I'd have to check, but I believe the 49/749 has operated continuously since Network 98. Not sure about the 424 days.

Offline stephend723

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2017, 09:38:35 PM »
88 to jail


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Offline 743

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Re: What's The Oldest Unchanged Canberra Bus Route
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 10:44:01 PM »
Wouldn't be the 88 - it was significantly altered in September 2014 to travel via Symonston and was also extended to Hume and Chisholm; it was further altered last year to remove the Hume to Chisholm portion.