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Network the next

Started by Barry Drive, September 02, 2014, 03:04:15 pm

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pckong

Quote from: ACTbusspotter on November 07, 2014, 10:27:44 am
See above for my thoughts on changes to 55 & 59. But not likely to occur anytime soon.

Would an additional bus stop on Roden Cutler Dr help at all?


An additional bus stop on Roden Cutler Dr does help.

It will reduce the walking distant to Route 55 bus stop by 500-600m. However, there are still probably average 800m walk from many of the residents in Jacka to Roden Cutler Dr (that is different to the 400m promise from ACTPLA).

To have a suburb accessible to bus service, the bus must be go into the suburb, if it makes sense.
But I agree, it is a better-than-nothing solution. Thanks a lot for the reply.

Barry Drive

Quote from: pckong on November 07, 2014, 04:52:07 pm
However, there are still probably average 800m walk from many of the residents in Jacka to Roden Cutler Dr (that is different to the 400m promise from ACTPLA).

Next step is to write / email / tweet ministers Rattenbury and Gentleman to point this out.

The provision of bus services to new suburbs has been poor for the last 5 - 10 years, if not longer.

pckong

Oh well, I hope the public transport service in Jacka to be better soon. 
:D looking forward to hop on, reading a book in the bus, and hop off 

Barry Drive

Quote from: Bus 400 on September 02, 2014, 08:21:15 pm
... Throsby is at least a decade away (knowing my luck they'll start it next year).


By chance I found this page: Throsby FAQs which says the following -

Quotethe first blocks to be available for sale in the 2015/16 financial year


It also says -

QuoteA bus route will be provided along the main collector road in Throsby. Bus stops will be located to cater for a 400m walking catchment. Bus services will be provided through the estate by ACTION buses to meet demand. Horse Park Drive is also proposed as a high frequency rapid bus transit route.


- without actually stating when said bus route will commence.

ajw373

Quote from: ACTbusspotter on November 08, 2014, 11:43:18 am
Next step is to write / email / tweet ministers Rattenbury and Gentleman to point this out.

The provision of bus services to new suburbs has been poor for the last 5 - 10 years, if not longer.


About 30 years that I know of.

Bus 503

With houses in Lawson in the process of being constructed, when would buses would service Lawson?

I would think the route 31 would service Lawson, so instead of buses turning left into Baldwin from Maribynong (from Kaleen South) they would continue into Stockman Avenue. Maybe Starllight Avenue would also receive a bus service?

The Love Guru

At least 3 years away if previous form is anything to go by

Barry Drive

November 10, 2015, 11:19:34 am #57 Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 11:41:40 am by Barry Drive
Quote from: Bus 503 on November 09, 2015, 06:56:16 pm
Maybe Starllight Avenue would also receive a bus service?

Wanderlight Avenue? Not sure, given that it runs (mostly) parallel to Baldwin Drive. I don't know whether they intend to run a bus service into Lawson before Stockman Avenue connects with Aikman Drive.

In any event, Jacka and Coombs would (should) be next in line for bus services. Although the next major network change may be as much as 12 months away, by which stage Moncrieff (Crackajack Way / Bernard Heinze Ave) could be done as well.

Skitube

November 10, 2015, 07:47:42 pm #58 Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 11:34:12 pm by Skitube
Not sure how Jacka could be serviced at this stage given Appleford Ave is pretty windy and narrow, probably wouldn't be too safe to have a bus going through there
Coombs should definitely get a bus service, could just divert the 83, 783 and 983 into Harold White and Fred Daly, since those already have bus bays
Funnily enough, got asked how to catch a bus to Lawson the other day by an Asian lady at Belco Westfield, bit of trouble explaining to her that there is no bus into Lawson at the moment

Bus 400

Quote from: Skitube on November 10, 2015, 07:47:42 pm
Not sure how Jacka could be serviced at this stage given Appleford Ave is pretty windy and narrow, probably wouldn't be too safe to have a bus going through there
Coombs should definitely get a bus service, could just diver the 83, 783 and 983 into Harold White and Fred Daly, since those already have bus bays
Funnily enough, got asked how to catch a bus to Lawson the other day by an Asian lady at Belco Westfield, bit of trouble explaining to her that there is no bus into Lawson at the moment

Jacka could be serviced from Horse Park Drive (an unused bus bay is nearby) & Roden Cutler Drive.

Lawson is easily fixed, catch a 30, 31 or 250 to the second stop on Baldwin Drive. Then walk up the hill towards the traffic lights & turn left.

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King of Buses

Regarding Woden...

Quote from: The Love Guru on October 30, 2014, 09:53:20 pm
Still not worth spending and time or money shifting the platforms around.
I'm pretty confident it won't be operating this time next year.


Well it seems your prediction was incorrect.

I have heard rumours once again of a new network in planning for early next year...not sure if they're reliable.

Northside

Can anyone tell me if Action are engaged at all when new suburbs are designed and the road systems planned? Having a look on Google maps, the locations for bus stops seem to be plonked around at random with little thought to the routes that will eventually service the suburbs. I'd hate to be Action who have to play dot to dot and find a way to service these stops with direct routes that aren't circuituos and don't double back on themselves. Looking at the likes of Moncrief and Coombs (still no bus service, yet the opened stages of Coombs are close to completion), it seems like we're going backwards in terms of desired route design.

Barry Drive

June 03, 2016, 01:46:12 pm #62 Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 01:48:30 pm by Barry Drive
Wouldn't be ACTION as such - they don't design bus routes, that's TAMS (soon to be Transport Canberra)'s job.

All new developments must include a public transport plan in their design and also incorporate bus stops into the roads. Not sure if it's TAMS or Land & Planning who approve the design.

But there's no guarantee the designated bus stops will be used - as demonstrated by the unused stops on Banjo Patterson Av in Wright.

(And totally agree - hard to determine what the eventual routes through Moncrieff and Coombs will be.)

Barry Drive

Also agree it's difficult if not impossible to design non-circuititous bus routes when the suburbs don't have straight roads.

ajw373

Quote from: Northside on June 03, 2016, 01:37:23 pmLooking at the likes of Moncrief and Coombs (still no bus service, yet the opened stages of Coombs are close to completion), it seems like we're going backwards in terms of desired route design.


Moncreif looks easy enough to provide bus services too. Interestingly on some early plans for the suburb the intersection of Horse Park Drive and Mirrabai Drive was meant to be an intertown bus terminus. Presumably the plan was for the 200 to continue down to Mirrabai Drive and terminate there. There was meant to be a small group centre and a private school on this corner too. Though with light rail coming, maybe... doubt this will see the light of day.

So to me if I were planning the buses through here, I would start a bus at Casey shops, go through Casey, loop through Taylor when it opens, then run down Mirrabai Drive to the town centre. (could also make it a Gungahlin-Belco route by running from Casey through Nicholls to Belco, but would need to be careful to not make Nicholls too far from Gungahlin).

Then i would have a bus start in Jacka (when it expands) run through Jacka, possibly skirt Taylor (Taylor will have a PS from 2019 and a high school later), then enter Moncreif at Bernard Heinze ave then Mirrabai to the town centre.

Other than Bernard Heinze and Mirrabai drives (plus a stop or 2 on Horse Park Drive) Moncreif does not need any more roads served by buses.

vnguyen

Since Labour has won control over the government in the election. What will happen in the next network change? While they continue on with the "new rapids" as proposed?

Barry Drive

I see no reason why not. Promised "Rapid" changes for mid-2017 are the Blue Rapid extension to Lanyon (waste of money) and the Black and Green Rapids.

What will be of more interest is what they haven't announced yet. What will replace 250 between UC, Baldwin Drive and Gungahlin (54 maybe)? Will there be bus services to Casey Market town and Moncrieff? What will become of Routes 4 & 5 when the Green Rapid commences? What will happen to weekend services?

Northside

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 24, 2016, 10:27:59 am
I see no reason why not. Promised "Rapid" changes for mid-2017 are the Blue Rapid extension to Lanyon (waste of money) and the Black and Green Rapids.

What will be of more interest is what they haven't announced yet. What will replace 250 between UC, Baldwin Drive and Gungahlin (54 maybe)? Will there be bus services to Casey Market town and Moncrieff? What will become of Routes 4 & 5 when the Green Rapid commences? What will happen to weekend services?


You're assuming that that amount of thought has actually gone in to the plans! Both Lib and Lab plans are lines on a map, no more than that.

A lot of work will be needed to fit in these lines with the existing network. For example, hopefully the Blue Rapid extension to Lanyon is just a re-jig to 318/319 to both run to the Marketplace and run limited stop between there and Tuggeranong. Then have the stops through Bonython and north Gordon taken up by other 'local' route(s). Of course, there are other options that could be used to avoid duplication with existing services. Ie, so we don't have a repeat of the 182 practically replicating a lot of the 783/83.

ajw373

Yeah the short term changes (eg 2017) are essentially rehashing existing routes. In the case of Lanyon extending 300's back to Lanyon as they did in the past and the black rapid seems to be essentially the current 250 service with a new name.

As for the comment above about service to Moncreif and Casey Market town, you won't find any annoucements about what will happen on that front as they are just business as usual/operational type issues. The 'rapid' annoucements are politics hence the annoucements.

King of Buses

Quote from: Northside on October 24, 2016, 01:24:15 pm
You're assuming that that amount of thought has actually gone in to the plans! Both Lib and Lab plans are lines on a map, no more than that.

A lot of work will be needed to fit in these lines with the existing network. For example, hopefully the Blue Rapid extension to Lanyon is just a re-jig to 318/319 to both run to the Marketplace and run limited stop between there and Tuggeranong. Then have the stops through Bonython and north Gordon taken up by other 'local' route(s). Of course, there are other options that could be used to avoid duplication with existing services. Ie, so we don't have a repeat of the 182 practically replicating a lot of the 783/83.


Lanyon to Tugg and beyond Blue Rapid is likely (in my opinion) to involve the extension of route 300 to Lanyon direct via Athllon/Drakeford/Tharwa (similar to the recently added Kippax extension).

In the case of the 19/319, it'd probably be rerouted direct between LMP and TBS also, combining with the 300 to achieve the anticipated frequency - could also be done by operating 319s all day with a further extension to Kippax on that run. This could alternate with 300 services.

As for route 18/318, that'd probably run via Bonython picking up what the 19/319 dropped (unless the 66 is improved/extended?) with 18s and 318s running the same in terms of timetabling (i.e. 18 off peak, 318 in peak)

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 24, 2016, 10:27:59 am
What will be of more interest is what they haven't announced yet. What will replace 250 between UC, Baldwin Drive and Gungahlin (54 maybe)? Will there be bus services to Casey Market town and Moncrieff? What will become of Routes 4 & 5 when the Green Rapid commences? What will happen to weekend services?


In the case of Baldwin Dr, what *may* be done is rerouting the 54 through there, then sending the 51 and/or 52 through McKellar. Or alternatively, splitting the 51/52 into three routes (51/52/53?) and sending one or all down Baldwin Dr - could also serve Casey Market Town and/or Moncrieff with one of those runs too. Which still leaves Jacka, I suppose...but Appleford Ave ain't for buses (and I mean that because it really isn't suitable for buses - unlike Annabelle View in Coombs which also 'apparently' is not even if some gunzels can drag an artic down there easily).

The Green Line/Rapid will be an interesting one to watch, though, in terms of how they do it. Maybe introduce the Rapid route as planned, then add a route similar to the 935 in - albeit as a bidirectional loop serving all of Narrabundah/Red Hill/Griffith?


Quote from: Barry Drive on October 24, 2016, 10:27:59 am
...the Blue Rapid extension to Lanyon (waste of money)...


As a resident of this region, I will agree that that extension is a waste of money.

Barry Drive

The "lines on a map" show the Blue Rapid to Lanyon travelling via Bonython. Which just complicates things further.

I agree with the need for a third route for Casey/Moncrieff, since I don't think 51 or 52 should be extended any further  (other than a short addition of Kingsland Parade). But I can't see that happening without additional buses being added to the fleet.

I think a new route in Griffith, Red Hill and Narrabundah is possible, but how would it operate? Shuttle service running from Narrabundah terminus to Barton maybe?

King of Buses

Quote from: Barry Drive on October 24, 2016, 06:06:27 pm
I agree with the need for a third route for Casey/Moncrieff, since I don't think 51 or 52 should be extended any further  (other than a short addition of Kingsland Parade). But I can't see that happening without additional buses being added to the fleet.


I don't see how any of this could be done without any additional buses, in honesty. They've pretty much stretched everything to the limit as it is.

ajw373

Quote from: King of Buses on October 24, 2016, 06:33:58 pm
I don't see how any of this could be done without any additional buses, in honesty. They've pretty much stretched everything to the limit as it is.


Assuming all other routes stay the same of course.

Just throwing some ideas out there, but does Casey or Nicholls need a direct bus to Belconnen? Could those buses not terminate at the old Giralang terminus and passengers change to the rapid route? That would free up a bus or two. Or could they start at Gold Creek or even Casey Market town?.

So why not a route that starts at Casey Market town, goes out onto Clarrie H drive, turns right then onto Overall Ave, up Pimsoll, Whitrod, then Horse Park Drive and then along Mirrabai Drive to the town centre. Would cover 2/3rds of Moncreif. Or if instead of turning into Mirrabai Drive it kepted going to the the Appleford Ave intersection and turned right into Monreif and then down to Mirrabai and to the town centre. That would cover 100% of Moncreif.

Then another route starting at Gold Creek, running the current 52, but rather than turning right into Wanganeen turn left, then right at the shops then back to Mirrabai and the town centre via Burrumarra Ave.

King of Buses

In my boredom last night I came across this video where TCCS director gives a presentation about Public Transport in the Molonglo Valley.

https://www.facebook.com/MolongloValleyMingle/videos/658916987632119/

It mentions that the next network (whenever that may be) will feature an extension to the 182 to serve Denman Prospect. The route seems to take a one way loop from John Gorton Dr onto Coaldrake Ave, Bielski St and Wyndham Ave, before returning to John Gorton Dr. To be honest that could easily be added now given the timing on the 182 being quite loose.

While unrelated to the presentation, a few weeks back the Government brought up the Black and Green Rapid introduction. A trial "starting in 2017" will see these services added, as well as the Blue Rapid extension. Not sure how they'd do it with the current fleet size, but in the case of Black and Green rapid routes (at least initially) they could be operated separately to the regular network similar to how the 101 and 11A operate and how Redex used to run. The Blue Rapid extension though could be too, but it'd create an uneven frequency across the rest of the route (not that it would matter given the late running and service bunching that often occurs with the 10 min frequency). So while running them all separately without a full network change is possible (especially because these services are trial services), from my perspective it would make more sense to start these services alongside a new network and integrate them.

Snorzac

Sooner or later it has to become time where they adjust routes on a need be basis and update time tables in that area. Given that would involve a huge shake up of the way the network is operated to begin with but Canberra is expanding and with new suburbs popping up there needs to be changes.

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