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Network 2014

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Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #300 on: September 27, 2014, 08:12:14 PM »


Do you seriously think the average passenger is going to be sitting there on their phone consulting Nextbus? Assuming of course they even know the stop nber to extract the info?

Oh for what it is worth I did a non interchange change the other day. Was going from Campbell Park offices to the city so only through searching the stupid action website did I realise I could get the Woden bus and change at Russell. Oh the only thing in question is where did the Woden bus go its not like the stops have any info.

The average Canberra bus passenger is firstly too scared to change buses & secondly wouldn't have the faintest idea what NXTBUS is. Those couple of passengers that do change, should be shown NXTBUS (if they aren't aware of it yet).

Also, the Woden bus goes to Woden...... Seriously though, if you've managed to make it to the ACTION website, you could of seen the map.

For ages though, the bus station displays were quite impressive. While after being ridiculed over the forgotten displays, we are seeing the bare minimum. It might be all good & well implemeneting a real time system, but not showing what routes service what suburbs is disgusting (see any platform at Belconnen Community Bus Station).

Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #301 on: September 27, 2014, 08:14:51 PM »
Connections hub: An adventurous lady passenger made an interesting connection recently at the North Weston & Molonglo Park and Ride northbound stop.....from the city-bound 725 Xpresso to the Belconnen bound Xpresso ex-Tuggeranong. Good effort.
To bring a more positive side to this thread. By the sounds of things Smitho you're keeping up a tradition of having a Weston Creek Xpresso on your shift.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #302 on: September 27, 2014, 08:32:15 PM »
This is what offends me:
... people who are very very cleaver and know their shit inside out (like US on here) write guides, or make decisions, without writing to their target audience.
Without giving too much away, one of my past jobs did involve writing user guides. Part of the challenge was getting the balance right between being too technical and too simplistic.

Given that ACTION / TAMS do not seem to have considered their audience, I don't think you can accuse them of being "cleaver" at all.

What needs to happen is for ACTION / TAMS to spend more money and allow experts in this area (ie Transit Graphics) to produce better signage that actually does consider the likely audience.

(Your challenge - go to a bus station and find a guide which tells you where to get a bus to the City. Plenty of references to "Blue Rapid" and "Red Rapid", but none which explain what that means.)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 08:43:12 PM by ACTbusspotter »

Offline ajw373

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #303 on: September 27, 2014, 08:42:33 PM »

Also, the Woden bus goes to Woden...... Seriously though, if you've managed to make it to the ACTION website, you could of seen the map.

Yeah of course the Woden bus goes to Woden, but via WHERE? Now if I was going to Woden it would not have been an issue, but I was going to Belconnen.

So my decision was to get the Woden bus and change somewhere to a City or Belconnen bound bus or wait about 25 minutes for the 10 to the City. And yes I did bring up the website on my old Apple I phone 3 and eventually worked out it went via Russell and worked out the over all journey was quicker by 10 mins to get the Woden bus.

Oh and at Russell again going off just the very basic info at the stop I saw I could get a 251 to Belconnen. Of course being someone on HERE I new that meant via Gungahlin, but the average punter or irregular user would have no idea what so ever that it would be the worst possible way to get to Belconnen.

Also Campbell park services are really shit, I mean to say I finished what I was there for at 4pm and the next bus to the City was at 4:40. Can see why the carpark was so full.

Someone else mentioned something similar above, but the basic timetable also showed a service at 4:25 which of course was actually the same bus as the 4:40 service but heading to Majura Park first. Also this bus came through at 4:20 and didn't wait until the 4:25.

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #304 on: September 28, 2014, 02:09:04 PM »
Oh and at Russell again going off just the very basic info at the stop I saw I could get a 251 to Belconnen. Of course being someone on HERE I new that meant via Gungahlin, but the average punter or irregular user would have no idea what so ever that it would be the worst possible way to get to Belconnen.
The Russell stop should have a "Red Rapid" header installed in the top case on the bollard. This shows the suburbs traversed to Belconnen and also includes a stick map of the Red Rapid as far as Gungahlin. While the automated HASTUS information only shows the final destination, as you say, the header includes enough information for people to know it's not a direct service. Or was the header not installed?
Someone else mentioned something similar above, but the basic timetable also showed a service at 4:25 which of course was actually the same bus as the 4:40 service but heading to Majura Park first.
Pitfalls of HASTUS automation, as I mentioned earlier. Agreed, this is poor, especially when there's no supplementary header involved.

Offline The Love Guru

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #305 on: September 28, 2014, 02:31:45 PM »
That is why there needs to be inbound and outbound stops in hastus, regardless of the fact that physically its the same location.

Offline ajw373

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #306 on: September 29, 2014, 10:00:43 AM »
The Russell stop should have a "Red Rapid" header installed in the top case on the bollard. This shows the suburbs traversed to Belconnen and also includes a stick map of the Red Rapid as far as Gungahlin. While the automated HASTUS information only shows the final destination, as you say, the header includes enough information for people to know it's not a direct service. Or was the header not installed?Pitfalls of HASTUS automation, as I mentioned earlier. Agreed, this is poor, especially when there's no supplementary header involved.

Yeah but if you look at the bus stop timetable there is nothing what so ever to show the 251 is a Red Rapid. Again it is assumed people know what Red Rapid is and from the stop info knows that a 251 is a Red Rapid.

Again gets back to my point about the info being provided is obviously done by someone who doesn't know how the basic demoniator thinks, and instead assumes everyone knows the timetable and route structure inside out like they do. Once upon a time that would have been me, but to be honest when they went to the single and double digit route numbers and through running I would not have a clue of what goes where.

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #307 on: September 29, 2014, 02:04:37 PM »
Yeah but if you look at the bus stop timetable there is nothing what so ever to show the 251 is a Red Rapid. Again it is assumed people know what Red Rapid is and from the stop info knows that a 251 is a Red Rapid.
In this case, there is a header installed which clearly states the 251 is a Red Rapid, and exactly what Red Rapid means (including the stick map, as mentioned previously). As far as I know, all (and if not all, then most) Red Rapid stops have a bollard, and therefore a header. Same for the Blue Rapid. Where this information exists, then there's no reason to just rely on the HASTUS export - the extra information is there, just above it, to be used.

I agree that suburban stops that only show a HASTUS display can be very vague at times.

Again gets back to my point about the info being provided is obviously done by someone who doesn't know how the basic demoniator thinks, and instead assumes everyone knows the timetable and route structure inside out like they do. Once upon a time that would have been me, but to be honest when they went to the single and double digit route numbers and through running I would not have a clue of what goes where.
There is something to be said though about planning your journey beforehand. I'm not saying you specifically, just in general. Sure, there are reasons for spontaneous travel, but I would say in most cases, people know they have to catch a bus to a certain destination. There's Transit for Google Maps, independent apps (which will be even better once NXTBUS is integrated), the network maps and PDF timetables on the ACTION website, the phone line, and printed timetables (although the availability of those could be vastly improved). If someone just turns up at a stop and hopes a bus will come along, or they're not sure where the routes go, then some of the responsibility must lie with them for that decision. I believe a suburban bus stop timetable is there for reassurance, not total trip planning. Bus Stations, on the other hand, need to be more comprehensive.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 02:06:24 PM by 743 »

Offline ajw373

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #308 on: September 29, 2014, 03:13:40 PM »
In this case, there is a header installed which clearly states the 251 is a Red Rapid, and exactly what Red Rapid means (including the stick map, as mentioned previously). As far as I know, all (and if not all, then most) Red Rapid stops have a bollard, and therefore a header. Same for the Blue Rapid. Where this information exists, then there's no reason to just rely on the HASTUS export - the extra information is there, just above it, to be used.

Still means nothing if you don't know what it all means. As mentioned I did but going off the info I saw someone unfamiliar may well have got that bus not realising it would take about an hour longer than changing in Civic. Guess the problem with having such long routes, where no-one except a bus fanatic would want to travel end to end on.

I agree that suburban stops that only show a HASTUS display can be very vague at times.
There is something to be said though about planning your journey beforehand. I'm not saying you specifically, just in general. Sure, there are reasons for spontaneous travel, but I would say in most cases, people know they have to catch a bus to a certain destination. There's Transit for Google Maps, independent apps (which will be even better once NXTBUS is integrated), the network maps and PDF timetables on the ACTION website, the phone line, and printed timetables (although the availability of those could be vastly improved). If someone just turns up at a stop and hopes a bus will come along, or they're not sure where the routes go, then some of the responsibility must lie with them for that decision. I believe a suburban bus stop timetable is there for reassurance, not total trip planning. Bus Stations, on the other hand, need to be more comprehensive.

I had no idea what time I would finish at Campbell Park Offices, so very hard to do any kind of planning. It was only the fact I do know some of the bus routes that I even thought to get a bus to Russell and change. Based on the info at the stop the option I would have choose if I knew no better would have been the 4:25 10 to Civic, which would have went to Majura park then back to Cambell Park 15 minutes later. Going via Russell on the Woden bus got me to Civic 10 minutes before the 10 would have got in.

As for the website it is shit, especially on a mobile phone. And if you were to check today you would only be able to find weekend bus services. For some reason weekday, red rapid, blue rapid and Expresso services don't come up, just Saturday and Sunday.

Offline The Love Guru

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #309 on: September 29, 2014, 03:21:28 PM »
Ahhhh, once again society is foiled by the need to bow to the lowest denominator. How about you let people who are too lazy/stupid to actually research their trip a little actually fall on their face.

You don't get in your car without knowing your destination and the way you are going to get there. When you drive somewhere for the first time you generally use a map. Same goes for public transport, if you can't be bothered to put in some effort and do a little research then you deserve to be lost.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #310 on: September 30, 2014, 08:31:15 PM »
Any reason why the 1 ex-Woden 1108 (BUS 918) went through Barton rather than Fed Mall today? Oh and, those stops on Queen Victoria Terrace still have old blades...as someone said, I doubt they're being serviced.

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #311 on: October 10, 2014, 01:58:53 PM »
Oh and, those stops on Queen Victoria Terrace still have old blades...as someone said, I doubt they're being serviced.
Stops 2241 and 2242 are shown on NXTBUS - so they are designated stops.

Also regarding Route 1, a new PDF timetable has appeared on the ACTION website this week. The 2:38p from Woden is now marked as "school days only".

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #312 on: October 10, 2014, 08:15:45 PM »
Stops 2241 and 2242 are shown on NXTBUS - so they are designated stops.

By chance, are these the old stop blades that carried the stop numbers like I know some did...Cause if so, that could be why they haven't been changed (yet).

Its good to see buses using Federation Mall frequently again (not counting the former 100...it only went one way :P)

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #313 on: October 14, 2014, 11:51:51 AM »
Some temporary changes from the ACTION homepage Service Updates tab:
  • Route 57 no longer diverting via Bimberi Youth Justice Centre due to roadworks
  • Route 982 no longer in operation after this weekend (I assume it will return once the roadworks are complete
I drove down Morisset Rd last weekend, and the number of potholes was absolutely insane - hopefully this is what will be fixed!

Offline smitho

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #314 on: October 14, 2014, 10:46:28 PM »
Noticed the other day that the DHS (formerly Centrelink) Nxtbus bus stop blade on Athllon Drive, Greenway, is numbered simply "9"....not aware of any other single digit bus stop numbers like this one.
Can anyone explain?

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #315 on: October 15, 2014, 08:43:48 AM »
Noticed the other day that the DHS (formerly Centrelink) Nxtbus bus stop blade on Athllon Drive, Greenway, is numbered simply "9"....not aware of any other single digit bus stop numbers like this one.
Can anyone explain?

There is 2 and 3 on Athllon Dr at Learmonth Dr too.
Those are the only ones that are single digit that I know of, some two digit ones too (32 at the Arboretum and two others there too) and then they go up to 9999 which is at Senior Boys Grammar in Red Hill (and its just in front of a normal stop on the 4. Why not just have one long stop...)

Offline The Love Guru

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #316 on: October 15, 2014, 09:49:18 AM »
If you had just 1 long stop all school services would show up on the NXTBUS info for people looking for the Route 4. Separate stop numbers in places like that are a good idea.

Offline Skitube

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #317 on: October 15, 2014, 01:32:11 PM »
There is 2 and 3 on Athllon Dr at Learmonth Dr too.
Those are the only ones that are single digit that I know of, some two digit ones too (32 at the Arboretum and two others there too) and then they go up to 9999 which is at Senior Boys Grammar in Red Hill (and its just in front of a normal stop on the 4. Why not just have one long stop...)

the three stops in arboretum are not 31-33, but 0031-0033, and if you don't put in the two 0s at the front, you won't get any result

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #318 on: October 15, 2014, 04:04:21 PM »
the three stops in arboretum are not 31-33, but 0031-0033, and if you don't put in the two 0s at the front, you won't get any result

 :o Facepalm  :o

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #319 on: October 16, 2014, 07:06:26 AM »
Some temporary changes from the ACTION homepage Service Updates tab:
  • Route 57 no longer diverting via Bimberi Youth Justice Centre due to roadworks
  • Route 982 no longer in operation after this weekend (I assume it will return once the roadworks are complete
I drove down Morisset Rd last weekend, and the number of potholes was absolutely insane - hopefully this is what will be fixed!

The way I read it is that they are discontinuing route 982

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #320 on: October 22, 2014, 10:34:33 AM »
There is a new Route 958 timetable PDF on the ACTION website. The map has changed, it now shows it via Girrahween/Mort Sts (Braddon) in lieu of Northbourne Ave/Cooyong St.

Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #321 on: October 24, 2014, 06:00:02 PM »
The stats for September are on the ACTION website ( http://www.action.act.gov.au/About_ACTION/how-were-travelling-page). What's interesting to note is the drop in passenger numbers between September 2013 & September 2014. A couple of hundred may not seem many. But there was meant to be an increase in services for September 2014.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #322 on: October 25, 2014, 12:30:44 PM »
The way I read it is that they are discontinuing route 982
Same here. Not sure if it ever carried passengers to/from Bimberi.

Offline Skitube

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #323 on: October 25, 2014, 06:31:49 PM »
just like the 88 and 988 rarely get any patronage from AMC. i doubt the 88 gets anything from hume either

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #324 on: October 25, 2014, 06:48:58 PM »
just like the 88 and 988 rarely get any patronage from AMC. i doubt the 88 gets anything from hume either

and chisholm too, as 65, 66, & 67 are all much faster to go to Woden with

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #325 on: October 25, 2014, 09:29:15 PM »
and chisholm too, as 65, 66, & 67 are all much faster to go to Woden with

of course you don't expect to see pax getting on the 88 to travel from chisholm to woden, unless common sense didn't prevail, or just a bus nut getting onboard.
88 goes to chicholm purely for the purpose of having an extra connection point

Offline smitho

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #326 on: October 28, 2014, 05:53:37 PM »
of course you don't expect to see pax getting on the 88 to travel from chisholm to woden, unless common sense didn't prevail, or just a bus nut getting onboard.
88 goes to chicholm purely for the purpose of having an extra connection point

It also provides a convenient toileting point for the driver!

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #327 on: November 01, 2014, 09:32:56 PM »
Post-implementation tidy up seems to be progressing. Old stops from the 757 along Phillip Ave, Majura Ave and Limestone Ave had "SCHOOL SERVICES ONLY" blades attached this week. I've noticed that stops in the AIS and Crace no longer serviced have had the blades removed, but the posts left in situ.

Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #328 on: November 01, 2014, 10:32:28 PM »


.... I've noticed that stops in the AIS and Crace no longer serviced have had the blades removed, but the posts left in situ.

Out of curiosity,  were the blades in Crace in the weeks after September 1? As it has been noticed that the same stop numbers for the stops on the other side of Jellico Street.

Offline 743

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #329 on: November 01, 2014, 10:41:38 PM »

Out of curiosity,  were the blades in Crace in the weeks after September 1? As it has been noticed that the same stop numbers for the stops on the other side of Jellico Street.
From memory, they were gone pretty quick - so may have just been shifted, as you suggest with the stop numbers.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #330 on: November 02, 2014, 05:47:10 PM »
Scantlebury Cres in Theodore has had SSO blades added. So has the stop on Chippindall opposite Theodore Terminus (not the middle one but the far side) so presumably all of Chippindall.

Sternberg in Wanniassa between Mackinnon and Langdon has had them added too (even though 967/968, 961 service them on weekends...)

Heagney in Chisholm between the two Louisa Lawson's has also even though they're serviced by the 967/968...)

Noarlunga in Bonython is missing its blades now too...Poles are still in place with paper signs saying stop not in service...)

The stops on Tom Roberts in Conder between Jane Sutherland and Wiburd may have SSO's too now...will have a look tommorow on my way past...


Offline smitho

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #331 on: November 02, 2014, 09:24:13 PM »
Noticed last week that the plastic bus shelter outside The Canberra Times in Fyshwick has been removed as has other evidence of a bus stop once being there.

Offline King of Buses

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #332 on: November 20, 2014, 04:36:54 PM »
http://www.action.act.gov.au/news/news_articles/supply-of-network-14-weekday-bus-books

"Some adjustments"...Would this have something to do with the supposed shift spill in January?

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #333 on: November 20, 2014, 06:22:12 PM »
Does anyone know if/where Network maps are available???


went to Woden Canberra connect and they said they hadn't been supplied with any although they'd asked for more 2 weeks ago

Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #334 on: November 20, 2014, 06:49:26 PM »
Due to a review in Network 2014, no more books at least will be reprinted. I'd say that would count to network maps as well.

While I had time this morning before a site induction, it looks like the blades have been changed over near the National Archives.
In other news, the new stops on Streeton Drive & Cotter Road look opened.

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #335 on: November 20, 2014, 10:45:22 PM »
The Streeton Drive stop northbound wasn't being recognised by Nxtbus when I checked a day or two ago....don't know if that other one - at the intersection on the Cotter Rd - will ever be used by routes turning out of Streeton Drive....suspect it is intended just for routes proceeding west to east along Cotter Rd.

Offline Bus 400

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #336 on: January 25, 2015, 03:25:27 PM »
The way I read it is that they are discontinuing route 982

The Route 982 wasn't discontinued & I only realised/remembered to check today that it returned once Morisset Road was reopened. Same for the 57 presumably.

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #337 on: February 25, 2015, 06:36:33 PM »
This morning, I was running late to school and the 57 came to plt 8 (City Bus Stn), and began loading up. 30seconds later, another 57 northbound followed. That driver was clearly confused as to why there was another one of him, and pulled up next to the first 57 to find out. From what I overheard, the first driver said something along the lines of "the usual driver of the 57 is always very late, so they had had him run a second 57 at the right time, so there are always 2 buses running that service". I was like Whoa, since when did ACTION care about late buses, let alone supply a second bus to run on time with the late one still following. There are so many other services which could benefit from a additional run rather then wasting a bus to make sure a service runs on time.

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #338 on: February 25, 2015, 07:21:06 PM »
This morning, I was running late to school and the 57 came to plt 8 (City Bus Stn), and began loading up. 30seconds later, another 57 northbound followed. That driver was clearly confused as to why there was another one of him, and pulled up next to the first 57 to find out. From what I overheard, the first driver said something along the lines of "the usual driver of the 57 is always very late, so they had had him run a second 57 at the right time, so there are always 2 buses running that service". I was like Whoa, since when did ACTION care about late buses, let alone supply a second bus to run on time with the late one still following. There are so many other services which could benefit from a additional run rather then wasting a bus to make sure a service runs on time.

What?

Online Busfanatic101

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #339 on: February 25, 2015, 09:38:44 PM »
What?
basically, the driver that's meant to be doing this run is always late, so ACTION has provided an additional driver+bus to operate this run on time, to be followed by the real driver of this run who is usually late. who, in today's case, wasn't late at all (probably a fill-in driver), resulting in 2 northbound 57s operating the same 57 service together. I don't know if this is any clearer. If anyone understands and thinks they can do a better job, please try for me
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 09:39:52 PM by Busfanatic101 »

Offline The Love Guru

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #340 on: February 25, 2015, 10:07:06 PM »
Don't know if it's clearer but i can assure you that what you are saying is incorrect.
There are no spare buses nor drivers in the AM peak to operate an additional trip unless it has been added to a shift on a permanent basis. I am not aware of this happening and if shifts were to be modified they'd fix the late running shift.
I have to wait for a bus most mornings as all the available vehicles have been allocated and hence can say with compete confidence that this 'additional' route is certainly not a spare bus and driver.

If i were to take a guess, it is either a driver who finishes early in the city helping out or the late running service being that far behind that the service after it has caught up with it.
I'd also check that the correct desto was displayed as in the mornings around 825am i know that routes 57 and 58 depart together.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #341 on: February 26, 2015, 11:13:35 AM »
Can you give an exact time? Also: don't (always) believe what you hear.

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Re: Network 2014
« Reply #342 on: February 26, 2015, 10:31:33 PM »
this was 8:50am, exactly when it was scheduled. Both were actually operating the 57, and highly unlikely either being 30mins late/early, even for ACTION, and neither were in a hurry as they would be if they were that late. I know what I heard, and that's what the driver told the other driver anyway.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 10:32:36 PM by Busfanatic101 »