So here are some thoughts of how to revamp the current Network to better utilise buses (and by extension remove some under-performing routes).
All assumptions made are not supported by hard data, so all feedback is welcomed. This is still a work-in-progress as I haven't thought everything through yet.
What is presented are the changed routes. If no mention, no change is suggested.
R2 - Kippax to COC (* with transfers at Kippax to 40, 44 & 45)
R3 - scrapped
R4 - no change
R5 - City to Lanyon - City to Woden sector direct via Adelaide Ave/Yarra Glen
R6 - Chapman to COC - current R7 to Weston then Woden, Canberra Hospital, Goyder St to COC (* with transfers to 52 & 53 on Goyder St/Red Hill terminus)
R7 - City to Tuggeranong via Weston & Tugg Parkway (* connections to 66, 70 & 71)
R8 - no change (* connections to 23 & 24 on William Slim Dr)
R9 - scrapped
R10 - converted to peak only
23 - Belconnen to Gungahlin via William Webb Dr, William Slim Dr, Federation Square & Nicholls
24 - Belconnen to Gungahlin via Baldwin Dr, William Slim Dr, Crace & Palmerston
30 - Belconnen to Watson - current 30 then extend to Watson Terminus along current R9
31 - Belconnen to City - current 31 to Cowper St then (L) Davenport St (L) Majura Av (R) Officer Cres current 53 to City
32 - Belconnen to Airport - current 32 to City, then extend to Airport along current R3
33 - Belconnen to City - current R9 to Dickson then current 31 to City with alteration in Braddon: Torrens St (R) Elouera St (L) Mort St
34 - Belconnen to City - former route 3/34/434 as appropriate, via Thynne St (north); replaces Bruce Shuttle
40 - unchanged, but with timed connection at Kippax with R2 for buses to/from Fraser
41 - former Route 14 via Page, Scullin, Flynn, Charnwood & Fraser
42 - former Route 15 via Florey, Melba & Spence
45 - Belconnen to Fraser - current Route 45 to Starke St then (R) Hardwick Cres to Kippax then current R2 to Fraser (* timed connection at Kippax with R2 for buses to/from Dunlop/Fraser)
51 - City to Hackett - current Route 51 to Dickson then Antill St (R) Madigan St (R) Phillip Ave to terminus at Dickson College
52 - City to Red Hill - current R6 to Kingston, then current Route 56 to Caley Cres then (R) Goyder St to Red Hill terminus (* connects with R6 for journeys to Woden)
53 - City To Red Hill - current R6 to Narrabundah then old Route 5, terminating at Red Hill (* connects with R6 for journeys to Woden)
56 - some sort of Fyshwick loop (not yet worked out)
59 - National Museum to Woden via Forrest, Barton & Russell - current Route R5 extended to Acton; alterations may be possible to 57 & 58 to achieve better travel times, including reinstatement of Hopetoun Cct interchange.
66 - reroute via Tuggeranong Pky, Cotter Road to connect with R7 for travel to Molonglo. (other changes may be needed to cover for loss of Heysen St)
70 & 71 - resume route along Tuggeranong Pky instead of Namatjira Drive
180 & 181 travel via Tuggeranong Interchange to provide direct City to Tuggeranong route in peak
R10 becomes 190
191 - City to Kippax via Jamison & Belconnen Way
192 - Belconnen to Woden direct
193 - City to Erindale via Adelaide Av, Yarra Glen, Yamba Dr & Erindale Dr
Like I said, this is just a work in progress. No way of knowing if this network would be possible using current resources. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
If you scrap the R3 how are you going to provide sufficent frequency with R2/R4 to meet demand between Belconnen and the City?
What demand? The R4 is every 5-15 minutes. B to C patrons are so spoiled at the moment, how do you think the T to W patrons feel losing most of their suburban direct to Woden routes?
Caught the R2 the other day, and oh man the timing from B to C on that are really screwed in the evening. Leaving Belconnen 2 minutes late, travelling down Barry Drive at 40kph most of the way only to get to the ANU stop 6 minutes early...
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 am70 & 71 - resume route along Tuggeranong Pky instead of Namatjira Drive
Oh yes please.
Quote from: ajw373 on July 13, 2019, 04:40:57 pmIf you scrap the R3 how are you going to provide sufficent frequency with R2/R4 to meet demand between Belconnen and the City?
191 should take most of the West Belconnen to City patronage, and 192 would help with any Belconnen to Woden patronage*, which would free up space for the Belconnen to City sector of R2/R4. With the right allocation of high capacity buses, I'm sure it'd be fine. If not, add some short working services on either the R2 or R4. Could always extend the R5 to Belconnen too.
* - If the frequency/number of services/operating hours is better than the old 749.
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 amR6 - Chapman to COC - current R7 to Weston then Woden, Canberra Hospital, Goyder St to COC (* with transfers to 52 & 53 on Goyder St/Red Hill terminus)
I'm not convinced I like this one. From what I can tell, the R6 is heavily used by people for travel from Woden to Manuka/Kingston. Having said that, I do like the removal of the duplication of the R6 and suburban routes between the City and Kingston/Manuka, the reinstatement of a Woden to Fyshwick link, and the new Weston Creek to CBR Hospital link. Also, unsure if the Chapman to Weston needs to be a Rapid still. If the 65 were tweaked to run via Wyangala/Hindmarsh instead of Renmark/Eucumbene you've pretty much got the coverage sorted for that area. Just boost the 64/65 to every 30 mins instead of hourly. Layover space at Cooleman Court is the problem though I guess.
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 amR10 - converted to peak only
While it is probably under-utilised at present, I wouldn't be getting rid of it. Doesn't need to be a "Rapid" though. Some services to/from Belconnen might help.
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 am56 - some sort of Fyshwick loop (not yet worked out)
Tuggeranong - Chisholm - Hume - COC - Fyshwick - Airport service, maybe?
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 am180 & 181 travel via Tuggeranong Interchange to provide direct City to Tuggeranong route in peak
Provided route 80 going against the peak flow is spaced roughly halfway between 180s to operate the Conder/Banks loop from Lanyon, I have no problem with this.
Quote from: Barry Drive on July 13, 2019, 11:02:42 am193 - City to Erindale via Adelaide Av, Yarra Glen, Yamba Dr & Erindale Dr
Not entirely certain of the need given the R5 changes, really. It'll save some time I guess, as well as add a peak hour Erindale - CBR Hospital link, but yeah, not convinced on this one (yet?).
Quote from: King of Buses on July 13, 2019, 06:22:10 pmTuggeranong - Chisholm - Hume - COC - Fyshwick - Airport service, maybe?
I've had some people tell me they'd like a Tuggeranong to Kingston service, that could work for this maybe.
Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on July 13, 2019, 05:43:19 pmWhat demand? The R4 is every 5-15 minutes. B to C patrons are so spoiled at the moment, how do you think the T to W patrons feel losing most of their suburban direct to Woden routes?
Two totally different and unrelaed issues there I am afraid. And must admit not actually noticed the frequency of R4, I had 'assumed' and wrongly so that it would be every 15 mins, so when matched with R2 and R3 gave a 5 minuted frequency between Belconnen and the City.
I like the idea of scrapping the rapid routes through suburbia. They are in no way rapid and probably don't justify the frequency. I'd have thought you'd still need to keep the r10 and r3 to the airport to encourage growth although you can probably make the r3 a loop service and not run through BP twice. Save a heap of dead running.
I agree the r5 need to be direct to woden. But id go further and push for it to run express through the suburbs not all stops. A new rapid could take its place between civic and woden but also run via limited stops through Deakin. I think the r7 is fine to terminate at cooleman. But buses should then continue the journey as 70 and 71s. I like the east west rapid along hindmarah. But probs not to COC. That seems overkill too.
I've also had one 'out there' idea to introduce some cross-suburb routes across the 'Barton divide':
R3: scrap R3 from Belconnen to Spence.
43: Belconnen to Spence via current R3
41: Takes Dumas St from current 43 then via UC hospital - provides better access to hospital.
New route 46: Belconnen to Casey via current R3 from Belconnen to Copland Dr (maintains 15 min frequency (Gold line) to Florey and Copland College. Then current 43 to Owen Dixon, then William Slim (connect with R8), then Gold Creek, Curran, Kellaway, Overall to Casey Marketplace.
30: Dickson to Spence via current route 30 to Chuculba then William Slim (connect with R8), Owen Dixon to Spence terminus.
23: Gungahlin to Casey via current 23 (Nicholls) to Temperley, then L Curran, McClelland, Kellaway, Overall to Casey Marketplace. (Takes Overall off current 27).
24: Gungahlin to Belconnen via current 24 (Palmerston, Casey) then William Slim, Chuculba, Canopus, then current 30 to Belconnen.
Several points for contemplation.
Passenger loadings to determine availability and frequency is not the point. The issue is that the service is there when it is needed, so that public transport in lieu of relying on car ownership becomes a real option.
If loadings were to be the determining factor, then it is far too soon to draw conclusions. It will take years for people to come to recognise and rely on a frequent, reliable service. Meanwhile it is essential for success of the current network philosophy and its long term future to stick to it and tough it out. (This does not preclude improvements, but wholesale changes can only damage the philosophical objective.)
It might be noted that the influential PTCBR envisions a model comprising Light Rail Radials and R type orbital buses, with supporting local services.
A Canadian town faced with the cost of introducing a 3 route bus service decided to go with a supposed cheaper subsidised Uber alternative. In essence this was a heavily subsidised taxi service, where customers paid normal public transport level fares. The inevitable outcome was ever increasing popularity, with the subsidy cost soon passing the budget estimate, and now well past the high bus route cost the Uber idea was meant to avoid. Other negative issues included effect on traffic congestion.
(Oi, oi, lay off the R3, thats the one I rely on and use most often.)
Quote from: triumph on July 16, 2019, 11:06:13 pmPassenger loadings to determine availability and frequency is not the point. The issue is that the service is there when it is needed, so that public transport in lieu of relying on car ownership becomes a real option.
If loadings were to be the determining factor, then it is far too soon to draw conclusions. It will take years for people to come to recognise and rely on a frequent, reliable service. Meanwhile it is essential for success of the current network philosophy and its long term future to stick to it and tough it out.
Which would be fine if all suburbs of Canberra had the same level of service, but they don't. So until such can be provided, I don't agree that some suburbs should have "Rapid" routes when the majority don't.
I also don't agree that there was a need to radically alter the old network (other than to adjust operating hours and frequencies).
Studies have shown the top criteria people care about (in order) is Speed, Frequency, Reliability and Walkability. I suggest that Network 19 may have improved Frequency but at the expense of the other three; adding transfers subtracts from speed so transfers need to be minimised and the connection times shortened.
Quote from: Northside on July 15, 2019, 10:17:03 pmI like the idea of scrapping the rapid routes through suburbia. They are in no way rapid and probably don't justify the frequency. I'd have thought you'd still need to keep the r10 and r3 to the airport to encourage growth although you can probably make the r3 a loop service and not run through BP twice. Save a heap of dead running.
My main problems with the "Rapids" as they currently exist is the inequity and the waste of resources. While I don't have the data, I don't believe that Dunlop, Spence, Griffith etc have increased passenger demand compared to similar suburbs. The Rapids should exist primarily to provide hub-to-hub services. On the question of resources, running STAGs or artics into and out of suburbs while mostly empty wastes the opportunity to turn them around sooner and run them back on busy routes. (I'm not entirely sold on the R5 south either - may work better as two separate non-rapid routes*, but that undermines the Rapid concept even further.)
I accept the argument about running services to encourage growth, but it has to be recognised that this is being done at the expense of some routes which were actually proving to be well utilised including the 3, 54, 80, 743 & 744. I would be happy for the R10 to run all day provided it did not come at the expense of other routes, but while it does I say keep the well-utilised routes running.
Quote from: King of Buses on July 13, 2019, 06:22:10 pmI'm not convinced I like this one. From what I can tell, the R6 is heavily used by people for travel from Woden to Manuka/Kingston. Having said that, I do like the removal of the duplication of the R6 and suburban routes between the City and Kingston/Manuka, the reinstatement of a Woden to Fyshwick link, and the new Weston Creek to CBR Hospital link. Also, unsure if the Chapman to Weston needs to be a Rapid still.
I'd be happy to re-instate the old 4 & 5 entirely, but failing that the suggested R6 ticks the boxes: removes duplication to Kingston/Manuka with 56, removes inequitable "Rapid" frequency past Griffith shops, reinstates a quicker service to Narrabundah shops while providing a full time connection to Woden and CBR Hospital and reconnecting Woden with Fyshwick.
* - instead of R5, route could be split into two: one travels via Erindale, Wanniassa, Athllon Dr to Woden then direct to City; the other travels Erindale, Erindale Dr, Yamba Dr to Woden then direct to City. Routes south of Erindale not yet determined.Amendments to previous suggestion:
R6 - terminates to Cooleman Court, possible peak services to Geoscience & TGA
32 - terminates at Airport; does not service BBP
40 - reinstate Macrossan Cres in Latham
56 - City to Fyshwick loop via Constitution Av, Bowen Dr, Canberra Av - anticlockwise loop of Fyshwick passing Lithgow St inbound and outbound.
64 - via Lyons, Heysen St, Streeton Dr to Cooleman Court then current route to Chapman
65 - former route 25 terminates at Cooleman Court
194 - peak service City to Fairbairn via Airport & BBP (possibly instead of 193); possibly direct via Parkes Way
So while I really like a lot of the above suggestions, I thought I'd see if I can add my own thoughts. I agree that the Rapids need to provide hub to hub services and have regular, timed local services feed in. One design that seemed to disappear, that I actually liked was the idea of buses combining to form frequent trunk routes, ie the old green and gold lines. The current setup of the R6 robs from one route to give to the other, where both should be equal and still be able to provide a direct service to Woden and city. The same can be said for a number of other suburban rapids where that line gets priority over an adjacent line that provides a worse experience than before.
So in my suggestions, I've brought in a heap of new frequent lines, some of which replace suburban rapids. I've also brought back a number of peak express routes and some new ones to improve peak-hour efficiency. I've also designed peak express and rapid routes to run as actual express routes, not running all stops everywhere! As always, I expect a robust discussion on the suggestions.
Rapid routes: (express routes linking hubs)
R1: Gungahlin to City - unchanged
R2: Kippax to Fyshwick - cut back to Kippax - buses continue as route 43 (except in peak, where some buses continue as route 44)
R3: Belconnen, city, Russell, BP, airport loop - cut back to Belconnen, loop around airport and BP to avoid double back - buses continue as routes 47/48
R4: Belconnen to Tuggeranong - unchanged (slightly lower frequency)
R5: Lanyon Marketplace to City - now via R4 between civic and Woden
R7: Cooleman Court to City - cut back to Cooleman Ct - buses continue as 71 and 64
R8: Belconnen to Taylor via Gungahlin and Moncrieff - extension via Mirrabei to 1st stop on Sutherland
R10: Denman Prospect to city - unchanged
R11: NEW Rapid: City to Denman Prospect via old R5 to Forrest then express to Canberra Girls Grammar, Deakin Shops, Canberra Private Hospital, Alfred Deakin HS, Hughes Shops, adj. Canberra College (Yamba Dr), TCH (Yamba Dr), CIT Woden, Woden Int, Cooleman Ct, then all stops Streeton, John Gorton, Wyndeham and Kondelea to DP shops
High frequent lines: (routes that combine to create high frequency corridors into suburbs)
Silver Line - Belconnen to Watson Shops via Bruce Dickson and Downer: 38/39
38: Belconnen to Watson via current R9 to Dickson then current 50 to Watson term.
39: Belconnen to Watson via new 38 to Watson shops, then current R9 to Watson term.
Pink line - Kippax to Fraser West via MacGregor and Dunlop: 46/146
46: Kippax to Fraser West via old R2. No 46 in peak.
146: peak extension of 46 to civic.
Yellow Line - Belconnen to Evatt via Florey: 47/48
47: Belconnen to Spence via current R3
48: Belconnen to Casey shops via current R3 and 43 to Heydon then Owen Dixon, William Slim, Gold Creek Village, Curran, Kellaway, Overall, return skips Overall
Green Line - City to Manuka via Barton and Kingston, and Red Hill to Woden via TCH: 52/56
52: City to Woden via current R6 to Stuart, then McKinlay, McMillan, Kootara, Matina, Goyder then current R6 to Woden
56: City to Woden via current R6 to Manuka then current 56 to Caley Cres, then Goyder, then current R6 to Woden
Violet Line - City to Deakin via Parliament House: 57/58
57: unchanged (peak routes terminate at Hughes shops - connect 157)
Blue Line - Tuggeranong to Erindale: 75/76
75: Tuggeranong to Calwell via current 76 to Erindale then current 74 to Deamer then L Clift, Johnson, Were to Calwell shops.
76: Tuggeranong to Calwell via current 76 to Heagney then R Clift, Ashley, Johnson, Were to Calwell shops.
Orange Line - Tuggeranong to Bonython: 78/81
78: Tuggeranong to Chisholm via current 78 to Hurtle then R Drakeford, Johnson, Outtrim, Calwell shops, Were, Johnson, Clift, Heagney, Beattie then current 78 to Chisholm.
81: Unchanged - in peak no 81 runs, route 181 runs in its place.
117: Gungahlin to Fyshwick express via Manning Clark (connect 18), Franklin Shops (connect R1/21/22), Nullarbor (connect 18), then express Horse Park/Majura to Catalina Dr Majura Pk (connect 54), Pialligo (new stop - connect R3), Newcastle (connect 59) then all stops to COC
127: Dickson I/C (connect R1) to Gungahlin express to Curran Dr (connect 24) then Casey Market Town (connect 25/26) then all stops via route 27 to Gungahlin
146: City to Fraser express to Jamison, Higgins Shops, Kippax then all stops route 46 to Fraser
149 (both directions): Belconnen to Woden express via Jamison (Eastern Valley Dr), Weston PnR and Cooleman Ct
157: City to Woden express to Albert Hall, Curtin Shops (connect 58), U-turn, express to Kent St then all stops route 57 to Woden
180: City to Lanyon express via Drakeford then all stops to Soward, exp to Tuggeranong I/C, DHS then express to Drakeford then all stops route 80 to Lanyon Marketplace
181: City to Lanyon express via Drakeford then all stops to Athllon, Tuggeranong I/C, DHS then express via Drakeford to Woodcock then all stops route 81 to Lanyon Marketplace
182: City to Lanyon express (current 182, but stopping only at) Russell, Barton, Canberra Ave (connect R2/59), Chisholm, Ashley Dr. Calwell, Lanyon. Buses continue to Tuggeranong as 81
19/20: now covering Paul Coe from 28
23: Gungahlin to Belconnen via current 23/24 though Palmerston and Crace then Gundaroo, William Slim, Chuculba, Canopus then current 30 to Belconnen.
24: Gungahlin to Casey shops via current 24/23 through Nicholls to Temperley then L Curran, McClelland, Curran, Kellaway, Overall, Kingsland to Casey shops
25/26: rerouted in Casey from Casey shops via Plimsoll, Whitrod, Horse Park, then current route.
27: Gungahlin to Casey shops via Gundaroo, Gungahlin, Amagula, Gurrang, Wanganeen, Unaipon, Burrumarra, Jabanungga, Wanganeen, Gungahlin, Kingsland to Casey shops.
30: Dickson to Spence via current 30 to Chuculba then William Slim (connect R8) then Owen Dixon, Copland to Spence term.
41: Belconnen to Fraser via Aikman (UCH), Ginninderra, William Slim, Dumas, William Webb, Moynihan then current 41 to Fraser.
44: Services continue clockwise around Constance Stone, instead of u-turn at Macfarlane Burnet. Services continue from Kippax as R2 in peak.
46: Kippax to Fraser (pink line, as above) buses continue as R2 outside of peak. During peak, services replaced by 146, peak extension to city, express via Jamison.
47: Belconnen to Spence (yellow line, as above) buses continue as R3
48: Belconnen to Casey (yellow line, as above) buses continue as R3
50: City to Dickson via current 50 - cut back to Dickson
52: City to Woden (green line, as above)
56: City to Woden (green line, as above)
57: City to Woden (violet line, as above). In peak services terminate at Hughes shops, then run direct to Woden. Route 157 runs express to Hughes shops then all stops 57 to Woden.
58: City to Woden (violet line, as above). Peak connection with 157 at Curtin shops.
59: Narrabundah to Red Hill term. starting Wentworth Ave before Mildura (connect R2) then current 56 through Fyshwick to COC then Hindmarsh, Jerrabomberra, Narrabundah Ln, Mugga Ln to Red Hill term (connect green line).
63: Woden to Cooleman Ct via current 63 to Namatjira then Streeton, Bangalay, Carbeen, Hindmarsh, Namatjira then Parkinson to Cooleman Ct
64: Cooleman Ct (Parkinson St) to Chapman South term. via Brierly, Hindmarsh, Dixon, Wyangala, Hindmarsh, Darwinia, Perry to Chapman South term. Buses continue from Cooleman to city as R7.
65: Woden to Weston Ck via current 63 to McInnes then Hilder, Streeton, Namatjira, Parkinson (Cooleman Ct int.), Brierly, Hindmarsh, Williamson, Blackwood then current 65 to Weston Ck term.
66: Woden to Weston Ck via current 66 to Fred Daly then straight to Steve Irwin then current 66 to Mulley then R Streeton, Namatjira, Parkinson to Cooleman Ct.
70: Woden to Tuggeranong via Corinna, Hindmarsh, Tuggeranong Pkwy, Sulwood, Kambah Pool (connect 71) then current 70 to Tuggeranong
71: Cooleman Ct to Tuggeranong via current 71 (connect 70 at Kambah Pool Rd) - Woden to Cooleman section removed. Buses continue from Cooleman to city at R7
72/73: From Wheeler, buses take Garratt, Langdon to Wanniassa shops (connect R5), then u-turn, Langdon, Garratt then continue along Wheeler
75: Tuggeranong to Calwell (blue line, as above)
76: Tuggeranong to Calwell (blue line, as above)
78: Tuggeranong to Chisholm (orange line, as above)
80: unchanged. During peak, services replaced by 180, peak extension to city
81: unchanged. During peak, services replaced by 181, peak extension to city, contra-flow peak services continue to city as route 182
83/84: Tuggeranong to Theodore loop (clockwise/anticlockwise) via current 79 to Calwell shops then Johnson, Ashley, Ellerston then current 79 to Tuggeranong
And to show how these key parts of the network combine, here it is on a map:
FYI the Woden CIT isn't a CIT anymore, hasn't been since mid-2017. It's just a childcare centre and a free-parking area now. It was suppose to be knocked down, but we all know how fun asbestos is to play with yay!
Quote from: Northside on August 03, 2019, 06:23:56 pmR1: Gungahlin to City - unchanged
Aw I was hoping you'd add a detour to that :(
Quote from: Northside on August 03, 2019, 06:23:56 pm71: ... - Woden ... section removed.
Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on August 03, 2019, 07:45:13 pmFYI the Woden CIT isn't a CIT anymore, hasn't been since mid-2017. It's just a childcare centre and a free-parking area now. It was suppose to be knocked down, but we all know how fun asbestos is to play with yay!
Aw I was hoping you'd add a detour to that :(
Yeah. Not at the moment. But there are plans to develop and move the Reid campus there.
The 70 and 71 will be timed to connect. 70 uses the parkway to bring back the direct route to woden. The 71 provides the link to cooleman and a direct route to the city as the r7
I have no issue with the Tuggeranong Parkway thing, I think there would just be a lot of uproar with a lack of a Woden bound service for all the east Kambah patrons. Like I said last time, no one or mostly no one wants to have to ride 2 buses to get to a major centre esp one that's a few minutes away. Although a Cooleman route from Kambah/Tuggeranong is nice, it is rather inconvenient for Woden, or travelling to northern Canberra - hence why I've been barely riding the 71 since the network change and instead killing myself (literally) and the occasional stepping in dog shit trying to get to the Wanniassa P&R stop every day.
Which is why they need to be timed to wait for each other at Barritt st. Pax change for the destination they need without fear if waiting 50 mins for their connection. 70 for woden and Parl triangle. 71 for Weston and direct city route. Simple
Quote from: Sylvan Loves Buses on August 04, 2019, 10:29:32 pmI think there would just be a lot of uproar with a lack of a Woden bound service for all the east Kambah patrons.
Did I forget to mention they also lost their 162?