Air conditioning on tram?

Started by Stan butler, December 18, 2019, 06:48:34 AM

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Stan butler

Hi all,

Does anyone know if the AC on the tram is adequate or strong enough to cool the inside down - unlike the AC on many of the newer buses?

The way they pack people on the tram in the mornings and evenings, it may quickly turn into a hot sardine can with no open windows. Could be rather uncomfortable if it is like the systems in the buses.

Sylvan Loves Buses

Nothing compares to opening the back window of a Renault and sticking your face against the incoming wind.

From my experience they are about as weak as the buses, especially when they're full. I'm sure they're powerful enough to cool, but like the buses you only notice it when you board, and then you melt for the rest of the journey.

triumph

Quote from: Stan butler on December 18, 2019, 06:48:34 AMHi all,

Does anyone know if the AC on the tram is adequate or strong enough to cool the inside down - unlike the AC on many of the newer buses?

The way they pack people on the tram in the mornings and evenings, it may quickly turn into a hot sardine can with no open windows. Could be rather uncomfortable if it is like the systems in the buses.

Firstly a question: Is the air conditioning in the buses driver settable? If not, it seems remarkable that some buses of the same model can have markedly different comfort levels. One common problem is if the bus has layed over for a while with the air conditioning off and thus heating up. From experience, it can take around the first 20 min into a trip before this heating up effect is overcome. However this doesn't explain many of the different comfort levels mentioned.

Secondly, the LRVs. Today was 38deg C when I rode in LRV006 at the rear end from the City to Gungahlin in a fairly full service. In the light of the quoted post, I took particular notice. There was no powerful cooling draft like in some buses. The environment was a bit warm and stuffy. I was on the point of perspiring and not comfortable. So, an external cause, or inadequate air conditioning?

I would tend to blame the multiple doors and their frequent opening. In a 24 minute trip with heavy initial boarding and 11 intermediate stops, those doors are open for quite a long proportion of the time. Not only was today 38deg, but also there was a breeze. I noticed every time we stopped and doors were opened, that breeze blew the 38deg outside air straight inside the LRV. It would be a remarkably powerful air conditioning system that could fully nullify that. Each doorway might also need an 'air curtain', and the flow strengths needed might, indeed, be uncomfortable for many customers. I suspect a rather intractable problem, but I do think a more powerful air conditioning system or, if possible, setting, would provide useful amelioration on days like today.

Given that Spain experiences seriously hot weather and the LRVs are designed and constructed there, I find it surprising that the system is not somewhat stronger. (Perhaps it is not sytem power but air conditioning settings that need adjusting. No way to tell without data access.)

 

Barry Drive

Quote from: triumph on December 19, 2019, 11:20:24 PMFirstly a question: Is the air conditioning in the buses driver settable? If not, it seems remarkable that some buses of the same model can have markedly different comfort levels.
Can't find it now, but I have read in the past that bus airconditioning is set to 22°. The only control which drivers can access is an on/off switch. Other than whether they've been running constantly or on a break, maintenance may be another reason for the different performance of air conditioning units.

Stan butler

Quote from: Barry Drive on December 21, 2019, 11:01:27 AMCan't find it now, but I have read in the past that bus airconditioning is set to 22°. The only control which drivers can access is an on/off switch. Other than whether they've been running constantly or on a break, maintenance may be another reason for the different performance of air conditioning units.

Let's remember that not all buses are the same. Obviously the pr2s and pr3s don't have AC (although I've been told the pr2s have driver Ac but not the 3s).  But the mans and scanias are obviously different systems.  Take note of the big filters on the inside of the roof in the scanias and notice they are not in the mans.

Yes, maintenance of the systems may be one factor, but I recall some of the mans seem cooler on a hot day compared to some of the newer scanias.  I would've thought the reverse was true due to the scanias are newer buses but it just seems the mans are cooler.  Some of the buses do advertise that they have Ac for passenger comfort but again, some of the systems in the scanias just don't seem to be strong enough or may not work.

A couple of quick thoughts, the ACT gov may have skimped on the Ac option or power  of the units when buying some buses.  To save some money, they may have optioned the buses with the lowest powered AC unit. Additionally, don't forget these are European buses and may not be built for hot climates - hence the Ac units may not be suitable for our climate but may bode well in downtown Stockholm. Just a thought.

Having said that, I am under the impression though that the volgrens, bus techs, green scanias all share roughly the same chassis and mechanics and the coach company in Australia just puts their individual bodywork on the imported chassis and mechanics.  I don't know if this includes the Ac units though but the Ac units and filters on the roofs of the scanias may imply that these are put on by the coach body company.  This may throw the theory of underpowered European ac units in the water as the coach company that does the bodywork are Aussie based - and you would think they would supply Ac units that would suit the local climate.

The artics though are another kettle of fish - some of those buses are sweat boxes.

We are only speculating and we'd need to talk to the maintenance teams to get a proper answer - especially on the servicing or even cleaning of the filters.  Obviously some Ac units work and some don't and I dare say the drivers have the same luck of the draw as the passengers do on whether they get a bus with a good Ac unit or not at the start of their shift.

Busnerd

The A/C unit is specced by the operator, so the operator decides what brand of unit they want on the bus and pays accordingly based on what they cost, no doubt TC went for the lower end, I think namely thermo king which in my experience are usually one of the worst ones on hot days. Denso and Spheros seem to do pretty well. 

Selection of the A/C units should also be based on after sales service, many get thermo king due to low price but from what i've heard, their after sales support and repairs leave much to be desired.

The different 'filter' in the Scania's and MAN's/Irisbus/Gas Scanias is part of the body design, custom coaches changed the hatches from 1-3 metal square hatches to one giant ugly plastic one that the locks can't seem to hold in place so it bounces around constantly.

Bus 503

Does the driver have any control over the loud whooshing noise (fan?) that comes from the climate control unit (not necessarily the air conditioner)?
I've often been in the MANs and K320UB/K360UB Scanias when this loud whooshing noise starts up and then stops, even in winter. Hence, I'm curious if drivers have any control over the noise or if maybe it is just a novelty of the Thermoking units.

Busnerd

Not sure what sound you are referring too, the sound could also be fans in the engine bay which come on to cool down the engine at times then turn off again.

Drivers these days usually have an 'on/off' switch in government buses, whilst a lot of private operators will allow more or full control of the A/C Unit, just depends how it is setup.

Snorzac

The aircon fans will run flat out until the cabin temperature reaches with designated temperature, then the fans will turn down, on hot days this may not happen and the fans will run flat out continually.

Sylvan Loves Buses

#9
Quote from: Bus 503 on December 22, 2019, 01:39:20 PMDoes the driver have any control over the loud whooshing noise (fan?) that comes from the climate control unit (not necessarily the air conditioner)?
Nope, that's just the sound they make when they're running hard.


Quote from: Barry Drive on December 21, 2019, 11:01:27 AMI have read in the past that bus airconditioning is set to 22°
Funny you should mention that, cause if you look up through the panels on most Scania and MAN aircon units in the ceiling you can spot a red number showing that temperature.

To go back on a previous question, after riding many different types of buses recently I found the Bustech and Volgrens to have the best aircon so far. Still pretty weak but marginally better than the rest including the trams. Also after many years of experience I know that you don't want to sit up the back of a sardine-filled-steertag if the temperature is ever higher than 25°.