ACT Bus Forum

Discussion => Fleet => Topic started by: Snorzac on February 09, 2010, 11:06:16 AM

Title: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on February 09, 2010, 11:06:16 AM
'Chris_Guru' reports that a Scania CNG trial bus has just left Kingsgrove depot. From what I have gathered from another driver it is actually on it's way to Canberra. The bus is a Custom Coaches CB60 Evo II and trials a new Scania gas system, apparently it will see operational service in Canberra.


It looks like an ACTION MAN 18.310 except for the Scania badge on the front and the fact that it is all white except for the area around the left head light which is green and there is an orange stripe next to that.


For the drivers wondering what the 'Koala Trial' is, this is it.


If I can figure out how to save the picture on the memory card of my phone I will post it.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 09, 2010, 11:48:47 AM
I'll try and attach the photo;

Looks nice; can't wait to have a ride on it, hopefully it'll be quicker than a K230!

Note: Attachment has expired.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Trolleybusracer on February 09, 2010, 03:54:40 PM
That looks quite bad, looks as it had a accident and someone just threw a panel from a 18.310 on!
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Snorzac on February 09, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
Ed confirms that this bus is in fact now at Tuggeranong depot.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Snorzac on February 09, 2010, 04:54:33 PM
and I have it on good word that it will be with ACTION for 12 months
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Busnerd on February 09, 2010, 05:24:57 PM
anyone know what model it is?
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 09, 2010, 05:26:32 PM
Interesting, and good to hear it's gonna be around for 12 months!

Commence fleet number speculation!
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Snorzac on February 09, 2010, 05:33:11 PM
possibly 17#? I don't know, apparently it is called the koala trial because after it leaves ACTION it will travel all over Australia.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 09, 2010, 05:57:14 PM
It's good that we're actually getting an evaluation vehicle for more than a few weeks. Just like the olden days!
Title: Re: Scania CNG Trial Bus
Post by: Barry Drive on February 10, 2010, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on February 09, 2010, 05:26:32 PM
Commence fleet number speculation!
My guesses: 176, 488 or 500.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Snorzac on February 10, 2010, 06:34:18 PM
Apparently it will be in service late next week. That is if it doesn't need to be lowered. Apparently it rides higher than a CNG MAN, that is high
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 10, 2010, 08:50:40 PM
Yeah, that's not good! Scania engines (especially the new K**UB series) occupy a lot of space at the rear of the bus due to the way the engine is mounted, hence why you have to climb numerous stairs to get to the backseat of a Scania, so that doesn't surprise me. The last thing ACTION wants to do is spend a lot of cash allowing for a single bus to get around the depot.

Which makes me wonder, did they eventually fit the Gas MANs in the bus wash?
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Sir Pompously on February 10, 2010, 08:56:46 PM
AFAIK, they still handwash them.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Snorzac on February 10, 2010, 09:58:37 PM
Yeah they do
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: belcodriver on February 11, 2010, 11:53:17 AM
Sorry if this seems a bit thick but what's the point of this evaluation? Is it to see if ACTION wants to buy some of these? I thought there weren't going to be any new gas buses. Or is it for Scania to see how it's bus goes in Australia?

Also what's the significance of BUS 176? With the Darts going up to BUS 156 if they wanted to follow on from there surely BUS 157 would be the go.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Barry Drive on February 11, 2010, 12:50:15 PM
Quote from: belcodriver on February 11, 2010, 11:53:17 AM
Sorry if this seems a bit thick but what's the point of this evaluation? Is it to see if ACTION wants to buy some of these? I thought there weren't going to be any new gas buses. Or is it for Scania to see how it's bus goes in Australia?

Also what's the significance of BUS 176? With the Darts going up to BUS 156 if they wanted to follow on from there surely BUS 157 would be the go.
I was wondering the same thing - but if ACTION get it for free (or for little money), then why say no. Perhaps it's a new fuel management system which can be retro-fitted to the existing Scanias, or maybe they are getting in early for the next round of bus purchases.

As for the fleet number, 157-173 was used by the leased Hinos, 174 was used by an evaluation Volgren Scania CNG and 175 was used by what became 310.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Trolleybusracer on February 11, 2010, 03:34:14 PM
1000  ;D
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Snorzac on February 11, 2010, 06:23:38 PM
I believe Martin is right, I have been told that it is a new fuel system trial so it could very well be something that can be retrofitted. Looking at some pictures of it taken by a tuggy driver, it all seems to be ACTION specs, cab lay out is a brand new layout which drivers should see in the 14.5s.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Sir Pompously on February 11, 2010, 11:28:42 PM
Driving past it tonight I looked and mentioned to myself (Going crazy again) that it must have been designed with ACTION in mind, foglights, single rear door, hanover LED destination etc. Just could not get a look to see if it was Rainbow Pride seating and what not as it was dark! Looks nice, just needs a few ACTION and Scania Logos on the side and rear to give it a demonstrator feel.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Snorzac on February 11, 2010, 11:32:00 PM
The interior is ACTION spec, I think it even has a chin bar on that seat opposite the rear door
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: euronymous on February 13, 2010, 05:46:39 AM
If anyone involved with the purchasing of buses at Action has any sense, they will steer well clear of this bus and its ilk. It's enough to make any self respecting mechanic cringe.

I highly doubt there will be any retrofitting of fuel systems going on. Anyone who says that clearly has no idea of the immense amount of work required to do such a thing.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Barry Drive on February 13, 2010, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: euronymous on February 13, 2010, 05:46:39 AM
If anyone involved with the purchasing of buses at Action has any sense, they will steer well clear of this bus and its ilk. It's enough to make any self respecting mechanic cringe.
Shall we perhaps take a look at the track record of ACTION's bus purchases: Dennis Dart, Irisbus Agoraline, Scania L94 CNG....
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: euronymous on February 13, 2010, 04:15:02 PM
Of course, how could we forget any of those glorious specimens of engineering.

That bus raises it to another whole new level. It's in no way a good thing.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Simes on February 15, 2010, 08:22:41 AM
There are plenty of examples of demo's that didn't take - Merc O405 (how silly), Leyland Lynx. Interesting that Scania seem to be going to such lengths to get some business back from ACTION....
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: belcodriver on February 15, 2010, 10:05:50 AM
It's in the Belco workshops ATM. It's had green ACTION stickers put on the back and sides. It also has stickers that say the licenced loading is 45 seated, 8 standing which seems ridiculously low. Perhaps the leading 1 fell off.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION
Post by: Snorzac on February 17, 2010, 06:53:59 PM
This bus now carries the fleet number 490.
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 17, 2010, 07:46:28 PM
Any word on the model?
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on February 17, 2010, 08:07:43 PM
no, 'euronymous' might be able to help us with that
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 17, 2010, 09:39:38 PM
Hang on.. if we're getting 24 Scania K320UB's, that takes us up to 487.. if this is 490, what's the plan for 488 and 489?
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on February 17, 2010, 09:56:59 PM
More K320UBs I would assume
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 17, 2010, 11:48:39 PM
I thought we were getting 26 K320s? I've heard so many conflicting reports, first it was 27, then 26, and now 24......?
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 18, 2010, 06:05:04 PM
I was going off the '24' stated in another thread, but I've had confirmation today that it is indeed 26. (464 - 489)
Title: Re: Scania CNG Evaluator now at ACTION (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 18, 2010, 06:19:51 PM
We have obtained some further details on this vehicle which have been added to the Wiki.

Wiki Article: http://actbus.net/wiki/index.php?title=BUS_490_%282%29
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 18, 2010, 08:12:50 PM
A K230? Ugh, I can't see how the diesel K230 could get any slower, ha ha!

Nah, hopefully Scania will be able to improve their CNG engines somewhat, to at least a satisfactory level of acceleration.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 20, 2010, 03:39:54 PM
For anyone who wants a look at the bus, it was parked between the sheds and workshops at Tuggeranong this morning, with an unobstructed view (through the fence) available from Athllon Dr.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on February 20, 2010, 07:32:20 PM
It is in fact a K270UB with the same engine that is used to power the K305UA.

http://busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49393&p=567749#p567749 (http://busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49393&p=567749#p567749)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir Pompously on February 20, 2010, 08:21:12 PM
Well, it is according to Dave from ATDB. However from what we have been told it is a K230. They have been known to make mistakes, but it is not infact that until we have solid proof that it is that.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 20, 2010, 10:28:52 PM
My well-placed source tells me it is a K230.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 20, 2010, 11:44:00 PM
'PoweredbyCNG' is a fairly reputable source, he definately knows his engines (except when he talks about the OC500LE, ha ha), but then again, he hasn't seen the bus, so call me a skeptic, but I'll believe the info we've been supplied until it can be proven otherwise......

Then again, a K270 would be much nicer than a K230, hands down!
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on February 20, 2010, 11:51:25 PM
Scania is currently offering two power ratings for the OC9-series CNG engine - 270hp and 305hp.  The 270hp rating is coded OC9 G04 270 and is used for twin-axle rigid buses.  The 305hp rating is coded OC9 G05 305 and is used for articulated, tri-axle, or optionally twin-axle rigid buses.  The previous CNG offerings were associated with the 4-series platform - the OC9 G02 260 for rigid buses and the OC9 G03 300 for articulated buses.  The torque rating for the new engines is so far unreleased, but I estimate 1200Nm and 1400Nm for the respective power outputs given what the competition offers.

Scania only offer a diesel engine rated at 230hp.

K230UB, K270/280UB or K310/320UB, they're all based on the same chassis.  The only difference between them is the power output of the engine, which in most cases is calibrated electronically using software.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 21, 2010, 01:21:22 AM
Hmmm, that's a very logical argument there, after reading that, the conclusion is that what you originally stated is correct.

Welcome, and thanks for the very in-depth knowledge there, it's great to find out all about the finer detail of bus engines, it's all intriguing.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Busnerd on February 21, 2010, 06:05:20 PM
It is a K230...

You have all the techincal jargon yes, but you've been wrong before about the OC500LE, ACTION has told us the specs and i think they would know better than a gunzell with a mind like an engine dictionary.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on February 21, 2010, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Busnerd on February 21, 2010, 06:05:20 PMACTION has told us the specs and i think they would know better than a gunzell with a mind like an engine dictionary.
ACTION have gotten it wrong before as well, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case in this instance.

Then again, this is a new type of CNG, and it is on trial, so it is a rare unit, something of which 'PoweredbyCNG' may not be familar with.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll only make up my own mind only once I see the chassis plates of this bus.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on February 21, 2010, 09:20:54 PM
This information was provided to me by Scania themselves...

Note: Attachment has expired.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: The Love Guru on February 22, 2010, 09:08:18 AM
Are you sure this is a production model engine? It could be a trial for a new gas engine, unless you are an insider at Scania i don't think there is any way to know. A lot of the European manufacturers use Australia to test their new products because of demanding ambient temps. That said, haven't heard of too many buses being tested, mainly trucks in the out back where they cop a pounding.

On another note, who really cares anyway! We wont be seeing any of them down here as there is no capacity on the system for more gas buses. There are also no plans for additional purchases for at least the next 3 years (until completion of the current MAN order)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on February 22, 2010, 03:51:39 PM
I can only go by the information I'm given.

The only way to tell is for someone to have a look at the engine itself for some identifying plates.

If it is a 230, it won't be a good performer...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Busnerd on February 22, 2010, 04:45:09 PM
I think everyone here is aware of the performance issues of the K230's...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on February 24, 2010, 05:38:09 PM
The only information I was able to get was that this engine is a pre-production trial & the engine is being tested by Scania to determine design functionality and reliability; however no details of the engine will be disclosed. Scania advises that the engine incorporates many new features that Scania would like to introduce with future production models.

As we all know the trial is planned for 12 months in Canberra, but no information could be released on the other ports of call.

Of course most already know a bit of this, but it is good to go into deeper reasons.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on March 02, 2010, 05:27:35 PM
As first reported by Martin, 490 was in service today.

I spotted it in City around 1.30 this afternoon.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on March 02, 2010, 05:59:36 PM
I got a picture of it, not a very good one though
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on March 02, 2010, 08:08:53 PM
It was on Redex services. I missed out on riding it today (after racing to catch it in my car). Luckily the driver had a break at the Railway before dead running back. The driver floored the guts out of it & it sounds very similar to the diesel MAN's & looks like it may have a bit more power. However I did notice that more water then usual was coming out of the water drip thing at the back of the bus.

I managed to get a few shots including a very informative engine cover. It does look very similar inside to ACTION's MAN's & it has a new cabin set up with the desto control on the dash board & only the two-way radio above the driver's head
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on March 02, 2010, 08:24:04 PM
I have to catch the 727 tomorrow, so fingers crossed I'll be on one of the runs that 490 is!
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on March 11, 2010, 08:45:11 PM
490 was sighted on a 312 this afternoon and on a 3 just over an hour ago
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on March 11, 2010, 09:10:52 PM

It has been 'on the bricks' over the past few days but back in service this afternoon.

Saw it heading north along Tuggeranong Parkway with no desto display at around 1800.

Casper would be a good name for it!
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Busnerd on March 12, 2010, 06:09:11 PM
Um no...

we've already come with the albino scania or the white whale etc.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir Pompously on March 12, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
Ahhhh the white whale. Now missing the Koala Trial wording it had on the rear.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on March 16, 2010, 12:32:41 PM
490 was back on the bricks this morning.

I had it as my shift bus yesterday am (no connection!). As Zac says, it is a bit grunty - more like a diesel than a gas bus.

Pretty agile and accelerates quickly on the flat but less impressive on steeper climbs. Perhaps a little bit noisier on the inside than the MAN gas buses. Ride could have been smoother but I put that down to it not being 'broken in' properly yet. Some minor rattles too.

In the cab, it's nice to have the Hanover bizzo at dash height. It has a strange shaped parking brake stick, but it's quite OK. Like the MAN diesels, it has the recorded voice telling you to apply the park brake if the cab door is opened. Short stop brake button is the same format and location as the earlier Scanias and the MANs. Gear select is press button style, again like the earlier Scanias (in comparison, MANs have a toggle switch).

Quite a small steering wheel, more like a car than a bus. Steering wheel adjustment knobs are on the steering wheel stick and are a new design for ACTION.

Driver's seat may not go back far enough if you have longish legs and hook for driver's coat is adjacent to the window rather than behind the driver's left shoulder - this can potentially create a blind spot as the coat can partially obscure the view to the side and rear.

Passenger stop 'bell' (siren??) unlike anything else we have on ACTION buses. Decor and seat layout pretty well standard ACTION style as far as I could tell from a quick look. Bus has both lean and kneel capabilities. Indicator beaps are quite loud and intrusive.

White livery is eye catching and seemed to arouse plenty of curious looks from pedestrians and passengers.

This bus is prohibited from entry to Belco Depot a/c height issues.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on March 16, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
Thanks for the review smitho, sounds like you were impressed overall?

What's the deal with the bell? Bit loud?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on March 16, 2010, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: smitho on March 16, 2010, 12:32:41 PM
This bus is prohibited from entry to Belco Depot a/c height issues.

How much higher is Bus 490 compared to the CNG MAN's?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on March 16, 2010, 06:13:39 PM
It was on the bricks today as it has 4 to 5 broken windows, not sure how that happened. A certain driver was told he could take it out for the afternoon part of his shift but ended up with 370 because of this. 


The bell is the same one that can be found in Scanias such as 325, 358, 365 and all the diesel MANs
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on March 16, 2010, 07:30:53 PM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on March 16, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
Thanks for the review smitho, sounds like you were impressed overall?

What's the deal with the bell? Bit loud?

'Impressed' might be taking it a bit far. I reckon that with a bit of fine tuning and TLC, this bus has potential to be reasonable.  The MAN diesel and gas buses and the Renault-Mack Mks 1 & 2 set a pretty high benchmark.

Not sure if I agree with Zac re the bell being the same as in the MAN diesels. My recollection is that it has the same siren sound as the MANs, but with an added chime effect thrown in. And yes, it is a bit lioud.

One drawback I didn't mention is that the park brake needs to be applied to make it kneel (but not to make it lean).

Sorry, I can remember the height off hand nor do I have the VIN.

Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on March 16, 2010, 09:43:44 PM
Quote from: smitho on March 16, 2010, 07:30:53 PM
'Impressed' might be taking it a bit far. I reckon that with a bit of fine tuning and TLC, this bus has potential to be reasonable.  The MAN diesel and gas buses and the Renault-Mack Mks 1 & 2 set a pretty high benchmark.

Not really a fair comparison (different gearboxes) but is the Scania better than the MAN gas buses?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on March 17, 2010, 01:19:10 PM
Just based on the prototype's current performance, I'd go for a gas MAN over the Scania...but that ranking could change should they get the Scania to give a lot more power when it is needed. Whther that's possible, I don't know.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on March 17, 2010, 01:37:59 PM
Went past 490 on the Tuggeranong bricks this am - no broken windows evident, although a diesel MAN next to it (400?) appeared to have a single broken window on left hand side - plastic taped over the window.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on March 18, 2010, 01:35:43 AM
Quote from: smitho on March 17, 2010, 01:19:10 PM
Just based on the prototype's current performance, I'd go for a gas MAN over the Scania...but that ranking could change should they get the Scania to give a lot more power when it is needed. Whther that's possible, I don't know.

Thanks for that.  The MAN gas buses go even better with ZF gearboxes.  On top of that, MAN have released an updated gas engine for Euro 6 with 320hp and 1400Nm of torque (the ACTION ones are 310hp / 1250Nm)!
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Ed on March 18, 2010, 01:22:52 PM
QuoteHow much higher is Bus 490 compared to the CNG MAN's

Lets just say the only way to get 490 OUT of Belconnen depot without ripping the canopy off is to get it through the back of the workshops and coming out the wrong way.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on April 16, 2010, 12:03:09 AM
490 is still on the bricks at Tuggies with that window
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on April 16, 2010, 06:28:44 PM
Bus 490 was on a 267 tonight.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on April 16, 2010, 10:30:26 PM
490 was behind me doing a 3 northbound as I pulled in to Lathlain Bus Station with a 315 (Bus 384) at around 1104 this am.

This evening we crossed paths again, this time at City West, with 490 working a 200 Link (as reported elsewhere on the Forum) as I was preparing to do a 160 southbound (Bus 384).
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on April 25, 2010, 05:11:54 PM
For those few that have been inside 490, am I right in thinking that the seat layout is a bit different to the MAN 18.320's.

Bus 490 still has that new bus/car smell & it defiantly has a lot of power as we flew up Longmore Crescent & along Athllon Drive.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on April 25, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
490, power, up hill? I don't think so, I saw it getting off the mark on Cohen street and it's a slug. It sounds powerful, but it ain't. The seat layout is the same as the diesel MANs except for one board opposite the rear door under the chin bar.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on April 26, 2010, 04:24:28 PM
The leash Tuggeranong has on Bus 490 must of been loosened as it was out again on weekend detail (as well as yesterday as previously mentioned).
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on April 27, 2010, 06:59:44 PM
I spotted it parked on Sulwood Dr around lunchtime, then about ten minutes later it went down Erindale Drive, did a U-Turn at Ashley Dr and went back up there..
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: CNG on April 29, 2010, 05:14:45 PM
Rob today was having a bit of a spin in 490 today on route 6 today, would of caught it if I had known. :)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: lukeo25 on April 29, 2010, 08:19:57 PM
saw 490 on a 319 southbound at 5.44
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on April 29, 2010, 09:42:19 PM
That driver has it as a shift bus both halves :). He is enthusiest friendly
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: p_stampy on May 04, 2010, 09:00:43 AM
Spotto'd 490 yesterday arvo at about 330pm going up mort st, towards north canberry. Might have been redex?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on May 04, 2010, 05:50:15 PM
Nope, would've been a 58.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on May 08, 2010, 09:35:11 PM
While conducting a registration check on Bus 490, I noticed that the rego papers call this buses body type is a cruiser. While every other has a rigid bus body type.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Barry Drive on May 08, 2010, 10:11:15 PM
No. The body type is Rigid Bus. The model is listed as cruiser. They must have used the body name (which is "Road Cruiser CB60") instead of the chassis name.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on May 08, 2010, 10:14:32 PM
Just saw my mishap
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on May 18, 2010, 08:09:07 PM
Quote from: Stacka on May 18, 2010, 07:09:14 PM
To be honest with you, the height may restrict where it tours. The fact that it is gas also restricts where it can go. It won't be able to go to Brisbane or Sydney, only place I can think of other than those are Perth and (possibly) Adelaide. I'm not sure of the height limits there maybe 'Bus 400' and 'MyWay' can enlighten us.
Quote taken from http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2458.msg22137#msg22137 (http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2458.msg22137#msg22137)

Since they use to run Denning double deckers on the Mandruah line (before the trains), Bus 490 should be safe along that stretch & should be able to fit in most depots as most depots don't have a roof. The only issue for is that Bus 490 may only be able to fit in 1 refueling sheds or workshop sheds (Mandurah). There could also be issues with the current Wellington Street Bus Station (one of the main bus interchanges for the city & not sure about the replacement bus station which is meant to be underground. But the other bus station (Esplande Busport) is where the Denning double decker things use to start/end runs so it should be fine.

On the northern suburbs, there could also be issues are the approaches to the bus stops on the train station, the buses go under foot bridges which aren't much higher then the current CNG buses. Out east there are quiet a number of low branches which means that Bus 490 could cope a bashing, however I suspect those depots don't have CNG facilities. Out west it should be fine.

But then again, Perth has mainly Merc CNG buses so this may not help the Merc system. It may also depend on who wins the artic trial, if Scania looses TransPerth may not want to try another Scania.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on May 19, 2010, 01:52:48 AM
I'm sorry to inform you that the Perth CNG artic demonstration will be meaningless.  Five manufacturers have responded to the tender for 650 new buses and the PTA are only asking for DIESEL artics.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on May 19, 2010, 10:57:37 AM
Ha, there you go! Thanks for the info there, it's the same here in the ACT, 490 is with ACTION, despite the fact that we cannot have any more CNG buses! From what I have heard, the ACT is ideal for trialling buses, due to it's temperature range and varying topography.

By the way, would you be able to let us know the five manufacturers, or is that still privaliged info at this point?
Title: Bus 490
Post by: Barry Drive on May 19, 2010, 11:57:49 AM
Yes, the Queen St station in Bris has a height limit of 3.5m Their CNG MAN artics are lower than our MANs due to this.

As for Perth, 5 bus manufacturers would be: Scania, Volvo, Mercedes, MAN & Iveco/Irisbus.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on May 19, 2010, 03:51:08 PM
On the topic of 490, I'm told it is off road again with engine troubles.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: CNG on May 19, 2010, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: Irisbus Rider on May 19, 2010, 10:57:37 AM
Ha, there you go! Thanks for the info there, it's the same here in the ACT, 490 is with ACTION, despite the fact that we cannot have any more CNG buses! From what I have heard, the ACT is ideal for trialling buses, due to it's temperature range and varying topography.

By the way, would you be able to let us know the five manufacturers, or is that still privaliged info at this point?
Why can't we have any more  CNG buses
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on May 19, 2010, 09:04:27 PM
Because the government has seen sense. When CNG buses are retired they cannot be sold off to private companies because there is no private companies that have CNG. Government buyers generally don't buy second hand buses so it makes it rather difficult
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on May 19, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
Quote from: CNG on May 19, 2010, 04:31:33 PM
Why can't we have any more  CNG buses
The C in CNG stands for compressed. The compression occurs on site, in Tuggeranong Depot and the system in use is currently running at 100% capacity, from what I have heard. So, unless CNG equipment will be installed in Belco (close to impossible), ACTION will not be receiving any more CNG vehicles.

N.B. My understanding of the CNG systems are fairly limited, so I'm wide open to correction here.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Busnerd on May 20, 2010, 02:43:53 AM
The reason for not getting any more CNG buses isn't really due to the onsell problem - it is as John has said, the system is at capacity and the other point being that MOST government operators will only buy 50% of the fleet diesel and 50% gas...it makes sense to have half and half - also what happens in 50+ years when the world starts running low on oil etc. then everyones gonna be scrambling to convert to gas/electricity and australia has heaps of natural gas so it will never run out here in our life times....makes sense too because most people think gas is cleaner when diesel is just as good nowadays, so its a political thing too.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on May 30, 2010, 07:46:23 AM
490 is on the bricks as it has been for the past two weeks
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on June 01, 2010, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: Stacka on May 30, 2010, 07:46:23 AM
490 is on the bricks as it has been for the past two weeks
& was back in service last night.


Can Bus 490 fit in the sheds at Tuggeranong? Or is it destined to be stored in the workshop area?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: King of Buses on June 01, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
When I've seen it at tuggy it's alway been at the workshops area
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on June 01, 2010, 09:30:14 PM
I'm not sure where it Parks I'm pretty sure it fits into the sheds, it pretty much lives in the workshops though...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on June 02, 2010, 11:22:05 AM
It does go in the shed sometimes, but it is often parked on the bricks.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on June 02, 2010, 03:27:20 PM
because it is so unreliable
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on June 14, 2010, 08:41:51 PM
Would anyone know the difference between Bus 490 & this Deanes Volgren Scania K230UB (http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=891.msg8097#msg8097) demonstrator? I mean besides the fact that Bus 490 is a CNG bus & has a Custom Coaches body.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on June 14, 2010, 08:49:09 PM
490 has a 270L engine, the other one had a 230L engine
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Irisbus Rider on June 14, 2010, 09:38:26 PM
A 270L engine would certainly be thirsty! :P

230/270 indicates the horsepower (hp) of the engine.

Other than that, yes, the only differences are the body, and the fuel used to power the vehicle. The block (5 cyl), and chassis are both near identical (open to correction there).
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on June 14, 2010, 09:41:07 PM
*facepalm* LOL, I'm tired
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: King of Buses on July 16, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
490 was out yesterday on a 312 From Tuggy.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on July 16, 2010, 07:20:19 PM
Nothing unusual, the driver is a member, it does the same runs every day.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: CNG on July 16, 2010, 09:31:00 PM
I got a few pics of 490 today, however they are on film so they have not been developed, my camera comes from the stone age.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on July 17, 2010, 02:07:21 PM
490 resumed doing regular services on Thursday 15th July...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on August 11, 2010, 12:59:10 PM
Performance curves for the Scania OC9 G04 5-cylinder engine.

Note: Attachment has expired.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: The Love Guru on August 11, 2010, 05:44:26 PM
They obviously use a different formula for Nm, as a Cummins and Scania with the same outputs don't pull the same! I think they took the 1100Nm reading with the emissions controls turned off.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on August 12, 2010, 01:34:03 AM
Quote from: Chris_Guru on August 11, 2010, 05:44:26 PM
They obviously use a different formula for Nm, as a Cummins and Scania with the same outputs don't pull the same! I think they took the 1100Nm reading with the emissions controls turned off.

Performance curves are provided for full-load only.  Partial load performance will be significantly different but having said that, ~550Nm at idle is very poor and similar to what you'd get from the IVECO Cursor 8 engine used on the Irisbus Citellis.  Mercedes-Benz's gas engine in comparison puts out 1000Nm (185kW) or 1200Nm (240kW) at 650rpm.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on November 18, 2010, 10:09:05 PM
Bus 490 has been sitting next to Belconnen Workshop for the past week. I wonder how much trouble they'll go to, when they eventually get it out.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on November 18, 2010, 10:19:09 PM
Apparently it has shat a gearbox, seems to be a common thing at the moment (464, 709 and now 490!!)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: PoweredByCNG on November 25, 2010, 10:41:58 PM
Scania has publicly released more information about the new 9.3-litre CNG engines:

Press release with engine diagrams: http://www.scanianewsroom.com/2010/09/22/new-gas-engines-for-trucks-and-buses-diesel-like-performance-and-modular-design/ (http://www.scanianewsroom.com/2010/09/22/new-gas-engines-for-trucks-and-buses-diesel-like-performance-and-modular-design/)

Scania OC9 G04 270 performance curves:
(https://www.actbus.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scania.com%2F_system%2Fimg%2Fhighres%2F210534_highres_09643-001.jpg&hash=fde037cd308348b39a2445470118fe912d3af610)

Scania OC9 G05 305 performance curves:
(https://www.actbus.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scania.com%2F_system%2Fimg%2Fhighres%2F210533_highres_09642-001.jpg&hash=49eb4766070fe3a4d44c72542329902fb6d98d45)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on November 25, 2010, 10:43:57 PM
490 now back at Tuggeranong but not ready to re enter service
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on February 16, 2011, 05:42:30 PM
I have heard from a very reliable source that tomorrow will be 490s last day in ACTION service (for now anyway), so I suggest if you are yet to ride it, go looking for it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: lukeo25 on February 16, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
i've seen it in service every morning in woden, it'll be sad to see the "albino" scania leave canberra. its a good thing i've caught it a few times :)
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir on February 16, 2011, 08:18:06 PM
I saw it today. Never rode it, oh well.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 16, 2011, 08:24:46 PM
I never got it either, although I do recall one day I decided to drive to work and got home just as my usual bus home went past.. and yep, it was 490.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: CNG on February 16, 2011, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: Metrobus on February 16, 2011, 05:42:30 PM
I have heard from a very reliable source that tomorrow will be 490s last day in ACTION service (for now anyway), so I suggest if you are yet to ride it, go looking for it tomorrow.

Cya white whale.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir on February 18, 2011, 04:55:17 PM
Quote from: Metrobus on February 16, 2011, 05:42:30 PM
I have heard from a very reliable source that tomorrow will be 490s last day in ACTION service (for now anyway), so I suggest if you are yet to ride it, go looking for it tomorrow.

Well your source is wrong, sorry. I saw her today(18/2/11) at 4:15 doing a 315. The White whales LIVES!
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: p_stampy on February 21, 2011, 07:40:12 AM
Wouldn't she(?) have another month to go?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: p_stampy on February 21, 2011, 07:41:49 AM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on March 02, 2010, 05:27:35 PM
As first reported by Martin, 490 was in service today.

I spotted it in City around 1.30 this afternoon.

or maybe not, I can't read...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on February 24, 2011, 06:04:58 PM
Well, according to http://www.rego.act.gov.au (http://www.rego.act.gov.au) Bus 490 has just been registered to the 17th February 2012.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on February 24, 2011, 06:08:36 PM
That's interesting. You'd think if it was moving on they would've renewed it for three months.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on March 10, 2011, 04:54:32 PM
ACTION have told us that the trial of 490 has indeed been extended, with no end date at this point. They added that the trial has been "very positive".
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Busnerd on March 11, 2011, 11:03:17 AM
Except for the bus shitting itself it seems to run fine all be it a bit slow...also the fact its a prototype means its bound to screw up
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: belcodriver on March 24, 2011, 06:21:50 PM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on March 10, 2011, 04:54:32 PM
ACTION have told us that the trial of 490 has indeed been extended, with no end date at this point. They added that the trial has been "very positive".

They get a free bus, even if it spends half its life on the bricks what's not to like?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: lukeo25 on April 08, 2011, 12:36:50 PM
I noticed today that 490 has myway readers
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: p_stampy on April 10, 2011, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: lukeo25 on April 08, 2011, 12:36:50 PM
I noticed today that 490 has myway readers

Maybe because the old readers won't be working from now on? I have no idea, just a guess...
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Barry Drive on April 12, 2011, 11:27:10 AM
No, 490 did not get the MyWay set up initially because it was not expected to be in service past February.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir on June 01, 2011, 04:49:01 PM
Still here. Doing a 31 today at about 8:40am. Looking a bit dirty.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir on June 07, 2011, 06:45:12 PM
Looks like it is doing the 31 each morning heading towards Kaleen. Gets to the hockey center around 8:40am. Theres a chance if anyone is intrested, but if it doesn't come don't hold me too it.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on August 28, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
Anyone seen 490 lately?
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: The Love Guru on August 28, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
Yep, it has been out quite a lot lately.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Sir on August 28, 2011, 07:53:29 PM
Still doing the 31 each morning as i posted above.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on August 28, 2011, 07:56:37 PM
Thanks guys. Questions were raised on Twitter and I hadn't seen it around myself.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Ed on August 28, 2011, 09:50:39 PM
It's got rego til February next year, so it'll be here for a while yet.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Snorzac on August 28, 2011, 10:56:20 PM
It went past my house at 11pm last night on the last 905.... As well as the 31 in does a 31?S (8 or 9) into the City about 1415
Title: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on June 13, 2012, 02:09:02 PM
Bus 490 looks to of been withdrawn from ACTION with no ACTION logos visible & the rear number plate missing.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on July 16, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
Is it still at Tuggeranong?
Title: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on July 16, 2012, 10:16:52 PM
As of 2 weekends ago it was, but I suspect it left when Bus 506 was delivered.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on July 18, 2012, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on July 16, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
Is it still at Tuggeranong?

I'm pretty sure it was around all (or most) of last week; haven't noticed it this week.
Title: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bus 400 on July 19, 2012, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on July 16, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
Is it still at Tuggeranong?

Just drove past Tuggeranong Depot & Bus 490 is no longer there.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on July 19, 2012, 06:07:38 PM
Will be interesting to see where it turns up next
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: smitho on July 21, 2012, 01:02:38 AM
Quote from: Buzz Killington on July 19, 2012, 06:07:38 PM
Will be interesting to see where it turns up next

Has headed up to Sydney....and may be a Koala crushing plant up there????
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Buzz Killington on December 29, 2012, 01:57:18 PM
'Bus 400' contacted Scania to find out the fate of Bus 490 and has kindly sent through a copy of their response:

Quote
This unit was a long term factory field trail of the new CNG system on the 5 cyl 9lt engine that has now been introduced to the worldwide market in both trucks and buses.

It was given the nick-name of "Koala" by the R&D department in Sweden who like to personalize these things.

The 2 year trial period was completed in June and the bus was removed from service and is now at our Head Office in Melbourne.

As with all factory field trial units, this bus has been decommissioned and the relevant trial components (engine, fuel system, transmission, engine control units) removed and sent back to Sweden for review by the R&D department gurus.

The rest of the bus is being "scrapped" and we are utilizing some chassis components in out technical training school and some of the body parts will end up with various bus operators for spares.

So, alas, this particular Koala is dead.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bidgee on December 29, 2012, 07:51:54 PM
What a waste of a good bus body.  :(
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: The Love Guru on December 29, 2012, 08:47:05 PM
Quote from: Bidgee on December 29, 2012, 07:51:54 PM
What a waste of a good bus body.  :(
Obviously you aren't familiar with Customs earlier work in the 90's. The bodies they build now are cheap plastic rubbish compared to the older stuff. It was all downhill after the 510/550 series.
Title: Re: Scania K230UB CNG Demonstrator (BUS 490)
Post by: Bidgee on December 31, 2012, 04:24:51 PM
It's more the frame than the plastic parts that is the waste. Frame still had some years left in it.