Author Topic: A few questions about Termini  (Read 640 times)

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Offline Bus 503

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A few questions about Termini
« on: August 14, 2015, 05:59:26 PM »
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Hi everyone,

I've had a few questions wondering around in my head that I myself can't answer. Any chance you guys could help?

1. What is the point of a terminus?

2. Why are some so weirdly placed? E.g, one is located "off the track" down at Basedow Street Torrens, another at Shakespeare Crescent, these are no where near anything, why are they there?

3. Are there any termini not used anymore? Not even for school routes?

Thanks   ^-^
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:01:56 PM by Bus 503 »

Offline King of Buses

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 07:37:02 PM »
1. So that bus routes can end there and buses can lay over between runs...

2. So that they are out of the way (generally) and can provide a point where bus routes can start and provide as much coverage as possible of the surrounding region.

3. Yes. Chapman (passed by the 26), Duffy, Richardson (passed by 66, 67), Pearce (passed by 21/22), Geoscience Australia (not that it is really a cut out terminus), Hackett (passed by 2), Cook, Macgregor (passed by 43/343) and Fisher (passed by 27) come to mind...

And by passed I mean runs serve the streets they come off, and sometimes serve a stop at or next to said terminus, but don't use the terminus cut out as such.

Hope that answers your questions.

Offline 743

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 07:53:49 PM »
The other reason some are so "weirdly placed" as you put it is because when they were built, they were probably at the very edge of urban development at that time. Now, suburbs have expanded around them with bus services realigned.

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Offline Skitube

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2015, 01:26:43 PM »
Another reason that they go out of use is because a new one has been built. lanyon comes to mind
not sure how many drivers use the chapman terminus at the end of hindmarsh drive, most would turn from darwinia to hindmarsh towards cooleman, or start 26 from the first stop on darwinia

Offline Buzz Killington

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 02:45:38 PM »
If they have a problem with operating the full route, then I suppose they could.

Offline 743

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 04:50:22 PM »
The 26/726/926 are advertised as commencing from and terminating at the terminus. Refer to the Bus Book. Why do you think "most" drivers don't do this, Skitube? Do you stand all day on the corner and watch?

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Offline Barry Drive

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2015, 12:40:21 AM »
3. Watson (x3), Red Hill, Kambah (x2), Spence (Shops) and others depending on how you define a disused terminus (Fraser East ?). Although it does appear to be a bus terminus, I'm not sure if the Cook terminus was ever officially used - other than for short working route 10/40.

not sure how many drivers use the chapman terminus at the end of hindmarsh drive, most would turn from darwinia to hindmarsh towards cooleman, or start 26 from the first stop on darwinia
Not sure what you think happens with route 26. Most services which terminate at Chapman will layover then depart again. Which is how most suburban terminuses (termini) used to work.

To address question 2: where else should they be? To best service a suburb, the terminus should be located as far into the suburb as is possible. Farrer terminus is a great example, as is Fraser West.

Offline Bus 503

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 06:38:15 AM »
Okay then, does that mean a 27 ever goes inside Fisher terminus at any time?

The 26/726/926 are advertised as commencing from and terminating at the terminus. Refer to the Bus Book. Why do you think "most" drivers don't do this, Skitube? Do you stand all day on the corner and watch?

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I have a friend who catches SR. 592. This service is meant to travel up Goyder Street, turn left at Dalarymple and then turn right Into Red hill terminus, however, the driver has often skipped the terminus and just gone and turned right from Goyder into Dalarymple skipping the terminus has no one gets on there.

3. Watson (x3), Red Hill, Kambah (x2), Spence (Shops) and others depending on how you define a disused terminus (Fraser East ?). Although it does appear to be a bus terminus, I'm not sure if the Cook terminus was ever officially used - other than for short working route 10/40.

Okay then, so a terminus is where a bus lays over, using that logic, Ellenbourough Street is a terminus as many 30/31 services run early and wait a few minutes, as is Gwydir square in Kaleen South, and Kaleen shops in kaleen north.

I've also noted that narrabundah terminus can cause confusion. The right way in is to drive to the shelter first, the go round that sharp turn. 370 had an incedent this year by entering it the wrong way, having to reverse twice to get the bus in, go over an ants nest, and narrowly miss the railing  opposite and make me hear a big swipe noise. And mind you, that made the bus a good 16 mins late....


Offline 743

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2015, 11:38:06 AM »
Okay then, does that mean a 27 ever goes inside Fisher terminus at any time?
No. Just because a route passes a terminus doesn't necessarily mean it goes inside. Fisher terminus used to be at the end of the route; of course, it now goes beyond, so there's no reason to enter the side road. You can use the NXTBUS website to call up individual routes and see which exact stops they service, or look to see if there's an actual bus stop blade inside the terminus. An example of one inside is Theodore, which Routes 71/171/971 do enter and service.

I have a friend who catches SR. 592. This service is meant to travel up Goyder Street, turn left at Dalarymple and then turn right Into Red hill terminus, however, the driver has often skipped the terminus and just gone and turned right from Goyder into Dalarymple skipping the terminus has no one gets on there.
OK, but that's a story you've heard (not seen) of a single example of a school route (not regular route) which passes a terminus - this is in no way related to the Chapman example at all. As Barry Drive stated, a 26 goes out, lays over there, and returns as a 26. It's the end of the route, so no point in drivers turning off early, or starting the route in Darwinia. Regarding the 592 - yes, it is meant to service Red Hill terminus - however, the driver may have enough visibility from Goyder St to see if there is no-one waiting to board there, and bypass it. Of course, I'm sure by the book they're meant to go that way, anyway.

Okay then, so a terminus is where a bus lays over, using that logic, Ellenbourough Street is a terminus as many 30/31 services run early and wait a few minutes, as is Gwydir square in Kaleen South, and Kaleen shops in kaleen north.
No, that's not any logic we were talking about. A terminus/layover is used between concurrent routes/runs, e.g. inbound/outbound or changing route number - not along the middle of a run, which are the examples you have given. A driver waiting to make up time can happen at any stop (although, usually at designated timing points - I assume you know what those are?) and prevents early running which may leave passengers stranded.

I've also noted that narrabundah terminus can cause confusion. The right way in is to drive to the shelter first, the go round that sharp turn. 370 had an incedent this year by entering it the wrong way, having to reverse twice to get the bus in, go over an ants nest, and narrowly miss the railing  opposite and make me hear a big swipe noise. And mind you, that made the bus a good 16 mins late....
Driver error can happen, and there's no reason for these mistakes to be published online for all to see. I'm sure they felt very bad about that mistake, and wouldn't do it again! Narrabundah terminus is an oddity where it used to be a relatively major terminus for lots of routes; it now gets serviced by a sole hourly weekend route - and even then, it's not used as a proper terminus anymore - just as a turning point (like the 71/171/971 at Theodore).

Bus 503, have you looked through all the sections of the ACT Bus website relating to termini and old networks? For instance, there are lots of old lefts and rights for networks past which can show you where routes used to start and end. This may explain the location and use of some termini.

Watson's multiple termini (as mentioned by Barry Drive) is a good example of how bus infrastructure has responded to urban growth over time. Watson used to be serviced by two routes - one for the north, and one for the south. The northern one originally ended at what is now Knox St stop 3253 (loop road terminus) as that was the edge of urban development at the time. The southern one ended at Antill St stop 3177 (large U-turn area), as that was (and still is) the edge of urban development on this side. Later on, with more expansion northward (and I guess also to service tourists at the Carotel), the on-road terminus (with full waiting shed and driver toilet) at Aspinall St stops 3345/3384 was established. In the final days of multiple Watson routes, the 36 and 39 each serviced a single side of Watson, but both finished at the latest terminus. Of course, now, there is no need for a Watson terminus as such, given the 39 is now a loop.

Admin, perhaps it's worth opening a new section of the forum called "New Users/Ask a Simple Question" - like that on the Bus Australia board? This would ideally be a no-flaming zone where users like Bus 503 and other newer members of the board could ask such questions, or post specific observations that other members may not find relevant or significant?

It's a fun hobby that we all share and it's good to help others out; I know it might be frustrating to answer things like this sometimes, however we were all new at it once and had to learn somehow.

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2015, 10:21:49 AM »
I've also noted that narrabundah terminus can cause confusion. The right way in is to drive to the shelter first, the go round that sharp turn.
The "right way" according to whom?

(Although IMO there's no good reason for 935 to go that way anymore - could easily turn around elsewhere, such as Goyder/Jerrabomberra roundabout.)

Offline Bus 503

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 04:09:39 PM »
The "right way" according to whom?

(Although IMO there's no good reason for 935 to go that way anymore - could easily turn around elsewhere, such as Goyder/Jerrabomberra roundabout.)

According to me! If your coming from Matina Street from the roundabout, and you don't come bunker first, and then you try to drive into the bunker, you'll have angry passengers who have to walk to the other side opposite the bunker and hardly have any space to get in because the railing in very close to the road! And you would have gone over the ants nest, blocked a few cars, just missed the bus stop sign with a loud SWIPE noise coming from an unknown place in the bus.(Hope I explained that good enough.)

Offline Barry Drive

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Re: A few questions about Termini
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2015, 12:30:55 PM »
So by your logic, if one bus driver is unable to successfully enter the terminus in clockwise direction (at his/her first attempt), then ALL bus drivers are incapable of doing so. Is that correct?

Also do the obstacles (railing, gutters, cars) which exist when travelling in one direction magically disappear when travelling in the other direction?

To put it another way - which is the better option: a difficult entry to the terminus, but a safe straight exit; or a straight entry with a difficult exit? (Yes, that is an actual question which can be answered. But the wrong answer may result in a face-palm.)