New Artics for ACTION

Started by Barry Drive, February 18, 2010, 10:45:24 AM

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volvo

Well you Cant just have a body without a chassis so one has to assume that a company such as Volgren or Custom Coaches will deal with the chassis, probably using their preffered chassis supplier, however if you loook at the buses we've got now they're all differnt ( Scanias, MANs, Irisbuses etc) but they all have CB60 bodies so its a bit of a puzzle...

volvo

I reckon the artics wont be useed for school routes until the old artics have completely withered away and they'll probably be used for  Blue rapids as well instead of or as well as the 14.5m Scania K320UBs

ajw373

Quote from: volvo on July 20, 2011, 06:26:02 AM
Well you Cant just have a body without a chassis so one has to assume that a company such as Volgren or Custom Coaches will deal with the chassis, probably using their preffered chassis supplier, however if you loook at the buses we've got now they're all differnt ( Scanias, MANs, Irisbuses etc) but they all have CB60 bodies so its a bit of a puzzle...

Why is it a puzzle? The Irisbuses were ordered by Kings Brothers with the CB60 body, Action brought them as stock units when Kings went belly up. With the Scania orders Scania was the prime contractor (the original gas buses were a tack on order for the SA Government) and clearly submitted a bid that had a CB60 body, and with the latest MAN order MAN was the prime contractor and clearly submitted a bit with a CB60 body.

jasp3r

Quote from: volvo on July 20, 2011, 06:29:45 AM
I reckon the artics wont be useed for school routes until the old artics have completely withered away and they'll probably be used for  Blue rapids as well instead of or as well as the 14.5m Scania K320UBs
Remember, after the 333 was deleted, with the new system of intertowns with the suburb route at the end they didn't artics on those runs. To bring back the artics there would need to be a Blue Rapid shake up. The stags can be considered rather pathetic for suburbs, and tight streets, so will probably remain on the Intertown for the majority of their life. The new artics probably will feature rather predominantly on Charters, including the free ones to the various sporting games. That said I would like to see artics on the intertown

Buzz Killington

I'd say we'll see a much higher percentage of route 300 and routes 312/3/4/5/8/9 covered by stags and artics, which would see more of the MANs and Scanias popping up elsewhere in place of withdrawn Renaults.

smitho

Quote from: Buzz Killington on July 20, 2011, 05:39:30 PM
I'd say we'll see a much higher percentage of route 300 and routes 312/3/4/5/8/9 covered by stags and artics, which would see more of the MANs and Scanias popping up elsewhere in place of withdrawn Renaults.

Agree with you on that BK. New artics couldn't be justified on the basis of school runs and charters as that would leave them unoccupied for most of the day and so hopelessly uneconomic. Can see them being used on Red Intertowns as well - peak loads especially.

Current artics are just not 'up to scratch' performance wise for bringing them back on to intertown work..quite apart from them being a bit tired and shabby.

AOQ951

From what I can gather from the Maintenance Conference in Melbourne recently, Volvo aren't interested in winning anymore artic contracts at the moment with the last of the B12BLEA's being delivered soon. They don't have an artic chassis in their line up for Australia yet and to adopt the 9 litre or 13 litre engine into the existing artic chassis would require engineering alterations and testing etc approved by head office in Sweden. Volvo Bus Australia simply aren't ready at the moment and don't want to put an inferior product out after the successful run of the B12BLEA's. If you check out the Volvo Bus Australia website, there is no artic chassis on offer. There is however a B9L artic chassis in Europe but it probably hasn't been tested and passed ADR's here yet. ADR's do cause headaches for heavy vehicle manufacturers when they bring out a new product, one prime example is Australia's axle weights. So going on that, I doubt we'll be seeing Volvo artics in Canberra for sometime.

On the subject of the bus body  / chassis tendering. I think you will find each chassis manufacturer will put in a bid of $X for 20 artic chassis's and say yes we can supply those in this time frame to the bodybuilder of your choice. Our chassis has XYZ features (which hopefully fulfil the terms in the tender). The body builders will also put a bid in of $Y and say we can build on A, B, and C type chassis's to the spec in the tender with UVW features. The bodybuilders have a pretty good idea of what artic chassis are available in Australia. (There aren't that many lol) Thesedays, particularly with the European bus chassis, the way the body is mounted to the chassis is very similar and doesn't drastically change the cost of the body. What does dictate the price of the body is more so the dimensions. The longer / taller the bus the more expensive it is as it requires more materials. The spec's in the tender paper seem reasonably standard with whats about in the bus industry by todays standards. One thing that will bring the price down is its a bulk order of a single design vehicle - thats easy money to a bodybuilder as they can pump out the buses quite quickly after the first couple and get a system going. That was mentioned during the Volgren Queensland Tour recently.

I hope that's a little insight into what happens when companies order new vehicles. Most of the time is quite systematic, but its not always smooth sailing.

Cheers
AOQ951

Snorzac

How do you find the results of a tender? The closed tender page is now gone so I assume they have reached an agreement with someone.

Barry Drive

Just have to wait until the contract is posted.

ajw373

Quote from: Metrobus on July 23, 2011, 11:00:36 PM
How do you find the results of a tender? The closed tender page is now gone so I assume they have reached an agreement with someone.

What will happen is Action will select a preferred supplier. They will then go into contract negotiation mode, which may include variances, then once the contract is signed it will be made public. If during contract negotiation agreement cannot be met they will go to their 2nd choice supplier and negotiate with them.

Barry Drive

If the fleet number range is 506 - 525 as now expected then 510 will be the first number to have been used twice on an artic.

Bus 400

Following on from the ACTVCC on Twitter, I asked about the new articulated buses. The reply I received was the tender process is still going on & should be done by the end of the year.

volvo

What about Mercedes? It's possible, does anyone remember if they were in the tender? I suppose the only way to fid out is to wait.

We can't really say what routes they'll be used on, I can see them on Red Rapids but you can't say for sure.

Bus 400

They'll also be on blue rapids, school runs, Xpresso's & humble suburban runs. Basically whatever the PR180's are doing now.

I am 90% sure they submitted a tender. As I recall something being said about it being the first Mercedes Artic in Australia since the O305G's.

Merv319

I'm so sorry for posting too late, but, as I've heard from a driver about 3 weeks ago, the artics will be scania buses. Not sure which brand will make the body.

The driver was a TG driver, doing a N958 on Sunday afternoon.

King of Buses

#65
According to the Australian Bus magazine,
ACTION will be getting Scania K36OUA Artics with CB80 bodies.

Sir Pompously

Ohhh combo artic! Wonder if they will spec them at two or three doors?

Snorzac

#67
Nothing is official until there's a contract...which there's not.

Bus 400

Quote from: Sir Pompously on November 14, 2011, 06:23:46 PM
Ohhh combo artic! Wonder if they will spec them at two or three doors?

Tender stated they must be two doors.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

smitho

New deliveries may be up to 30 artics; understand that choice of Scania is pretty certain.

Whether Renault artics are withdrawn as Scanias are introduced now seems less certain. Wouldn't be surprised if we see Renaults remaining in school run service for some time to come, while new artic fleet gets put into intertown and other scheduled public services.

Sir Pompously

They should withdraw some Renault artics as spares for those left in the fleet. An overhaul wouldn't go astray, new seat covering, re-do the floor and give them a lick of new paint to keep them looking ok and recondition the engine and gearbox. They are perfect for school runs and charters, and can leave the newer artics to run on rapid services and those school runs that require a low floor artic.

Unless there is an operator that is looking for second hand articulated buses (there would be a market there, just whether they want Renaults is another thing), I am not sure they will sell that well. The 180.2's are clapped out and are ready to be replaced or overhauled, which isn't exactly a positive selling point!

CNG

i would buy an old action artic lol

Buzz Killington

Quote from: Sir Pompously on November 15, 2011, 03:23:04 PM
They should withdraw some Renault artics as spares for those left in the fleet.

Definitely. Not so sure about the cosmetics though, particularly if they're going to end up on school runs (the reason they look worse for wear on the inside)

Sir Pompously

Quote from: Buzz Killington on November 15, 2011, 06:32:33 PM
Definitely. Not so sure about the cosmetics though, particularly if they're going to end up on school runs (the reason they look worse for wear on the inside)

Cosmetics simply because it needs to be done. They can replace the fabric with vinyl for all I care :P But the flooring needs to be done, more under the floor than the covering itself.

Busnerd

It will be a sad day when these buses are withdrawn. I love the arctics and they're so nice to ride. Personally I love the mk2 arctics more because the saydair seats really make the difference and make the bus look so much nicer! Hopefully they don't scrap them and sell them instead. I would love to buy one but I would assume they would sell for $10,000+ which probably isn't affordable

Barry Drive

Quote from: smitho on November 15, 2011, 12:20:53 PM
New deliveries may be up to 30 artics
Tender was for 20 buses, but it can be varied later.

Quote from: smitho on November 15, 2011, 12:20:53 PM
Whether Renault artics are withdrawn as Scanias are introduced now seems less certain.

It will depend on how quickly they can bring the new buses into service, but by my calculations if 13 low floor artics are in service as at 31 December 2012, they will just meet DDA without having to withdraw any PR180.2s (or any other bus for that matter). If, on the other hand, they withdrew 5 and put 10 new in service by Dec '12, they would make DDA easily.

Since all artics are currently in service during peak, the only way that new artics can be put onto peak "Rapid" or "Xpresso" services would be if at least some of the current artics remain in service.

All I know for sure is that the first 5 new artics will go to Belconnen Depot and their 5 Mk2s will be sent to Tuggeranong.

King of Buses

I want to by 725 when it comes for sale! :)

smitho

Quote from: King of Buses on November 16, 2011, 02:18:20 PM
I want to by 725 when it comes for sale! :)
I had 725 today - was OK, but I wouldn't rave about it.

719 is by far the best performer in the fleet right now.

King of Buses

I got 725 yesterday arvo on a 500.

Barry Drive

#79
Quote from: Metrobus on November 14, 2011, 06:33:24 PM
Nothing is official until there's a contract...which there's not.
There is a contract: it is now official. Scania K360UA with CB80 body.

To view contract.

Some highlights:

  • Engine: DC9 24 360 - 9.3litre, 5 cylinder, Euro V, 360 hp. Max torque 1600Nm @ 1100 - 1350 rpm
  • ZF 5HP 604C NBS transmission (Ecomat4)
  • Body spec copied from Adelaide, unless otherwise noted
  • Climate control: ThermoKing ASR 140 1004
  • rear-door camera and reversing camera with a display screen mounted to desto box
  • total of 7 internal cameras and 4 external cameras
  • interior lighting will be blue flouros in front section (to turntable) and LEDs in rear section
  • drivers cabin lights will be LED
  • seating will be McConnell Urban: 59 seats + 2 wheelchair bays (total 65 seats)
  • 2 doors only
  • length 17875mm
  • height 3345mm (including a/c pod)
  • one interior rectangular convex driver's mirror to centre of bulkhead access flap
  • Body numbers will be ACTA506 to ACTA525
  • No mention of front fog lights or rear window

Busnerd

Do we know if the second door will be in the trailer or in the front half? and will it be a single leaf rear door as per the stags?

Barry Drive

Double door, in rear half (specs show steps at rear exit). Location unknown, but presumed to be in usual spot.

Bus 400


smitho

Nice to see these new additions to the Adelaide Metro fleet continue an old tradition carried over from the Adelaide street tramway era of the 1950s, namely, painting the external bus numbers in 'regal red'.

This was the standard colour for bus and tram numbers when all the MTT (Metropolitan Tramways Trust) buses and trams were painted silver with contrasted regal red horizontal stripes and tram/bus numbers. This livery was adopted from the early 1950s and continued through into the STA era (State Transport Authority, later Trans Adelaide).

Buzz Killington

#84
Custom Coaches are saying that the new artics will replace twenty of the PR180.2's, with the other 13 to remain in service (by reading between the lines where they say the remaining 13 will be replaced at a later date)

http://customcoaches.com.au/custom-to-supply-20-artics-to-action/

smitho

That's interesting...it should be an accurate and reliable source.

ajw373

The radio news over the weekend was also mentioning the fact that only 20 old buses will be replaced, though took the report with a grain of salt especially when they said they were Caterpillar buses. They also said that the cost was something like $74m, so $3.7m per bus. Seems an awful lot of money.

Barry Drive

Quote from: ajw373 on November 30, 2011, 06:56:02 AM
Seems an awful lot of money.
Contract total is shown on ACT Government procurement website. To the dollar, amount is listed as $14,815,196.00 so $740,759.80 per bus.

Kramden

#88
Quote from: Buzz Killington on November 29, 2011, 07:40:23 PM
Custom Coaches are saying that the new artics will replace twenty of the PR180.2's, with the other 13 to remain in service (by reading between the lines where they say the remaining 13 will be replaced at a later date)

While it's noteworthy to know the amount of new artics coming the thing that concerns me is where/how will they be used.  I understand that some artics will remain in service and I assume these can be assigned to heavy load school runs.  But I wonder what's gonna happen when those 13 are done with.  It's a troubling thought that new buses would be put on school runs.  My God, you can just imagine the rough treatment they'd get from some students.

Personally I like to see them on regular intertowns and select charters depending on the clientele, e.g no one from Charnwood, LOL!

And while we ponder about where to best use these artics what will become of the under-used STAGs.  Is it me or do they spend most of their life in the sheds?  Sure, I know they're mostly on intertowns but I hear that using them for school runs doesn't work due to their size at most school bus bays.  Nice buses but totally wasted at the moment in my view.

ajw373

Quote from: Kramden on November 30, 2011, 03:47:52 PM
While it's noteworthy to know the amount of new artics coming the thing that concerns me is where/how will they be used.  I understand that some artics will remain in service and I assume these can be assigend to heavy load school runs.  But I wonder what's gonna happen when those 13 are done with.  It's a troubling thought that new buses would be put on school runs.  My God, you can just imagine the rough treatment they'd get from some students.

Personally I like to see them on regular intertowns and select charters depending on the clientele, e.g no one from Charnwood, LOL!

And while we ponder about where to best use these artics what will become of the under-used STAGs.  Is it me or do they spend most of their life in the sheds?  Sure, I know they're mostly on intertowns but I hear that using them for school runs doesn't work due to their size at most school bus bays.  Nice buses but totally wasted at the the moment in my view.

Bet the radio reporter miss-read the press release and got 7 instead of 1. Certainly a much better price. Anyway what can you expect from FM104.7 and 106, I mean to say their traffic reported cannot even pronounce the names of half the streets in Canberra. No idea where they got Caterpillar from though, not even close to Scania or Custom Coaches.

Kramden

#90
Quote from: ajw373 on November 30, 2011, 06:47:20 PM
Bet the radio reporter miss-read the press release and got 7 instead of 1. Certainly a much better price. Anyway what can you expect from FM104.7 and 106, I mean to say their traffic reported cannot even pronounce the names of half the streets in Canberra. No idea where they got Caterpillar from though, not even close to Scania or Custom Coaches.

Mispronouncing of Canberra streets or suburbs on radio is par for the course I'm afraid.  It's been happening for a L-O-N-G time. Don't take it too personally.  Many of our young local radio people are blow ins from out of town.  They'll learn if they stay around.

As for my take about a reference to Caterpillar buses is that the reporter was probably attempting to describe 'look' of the bus rather than its brand or who builds it.  Just as we all know that artics are commonly referred to as 'Bendy Buses' among the general public, the reporter may have once heard/read an artic described as a snake bus, a worm bus, or a caterpillar bus, i.e. the way in which they snake around corners.

The main thing is: the reporter did not refer to them as 'artics'.  That's too much an 'in term' and any reporter worth his/her salt avoids such expressions in general news.  Reporters need to be aware of their audience's understanding of the message they're broadcasting.  A lot of people catch buses but in my experience they couldn't tell you the difference between a desto and a validator.

Barry Drive

Quote from: ajw373 on November 30, 2011, 06:56:02 AM
They also said that the cost was something like $74m

From the Media Release: "The procurement of the 20 replacement articulated buses is included in the $75.5m of funding previously provided by the ACT Government."

So maybe the news report misunderstood the phase is included in, or else you mis-heard what was said. The actual cost of just the 20 artics was not in the release and I doubt that news outlets would bother to research beyond what is contained in a Media Release.

Quote from: ajw373 on November 30, 2011, 06:47:20 PM
Anyway what can you expect from FM104.7 and 106, I mean to say their traffic reported (sic) cannot even pronounce the names of half the streets in Canberra.
This might also have something to do with the fact that said traffic reporters are based in Sydney.

Bus 400

Kramden-Bus 390 was sent on school run from Campbell High to Watson & Dickson College to the City in its first few weeks of service & survived all right.

Kramden

#93
Pleasing to hear 390 survived...survives.  What I'm getting is: if a new artic was used day in/day out for schoolies over a long period.  I'd just be interested in how they'd look in the saloon after school runs on a prolonged basis. Would they show wear and tear at a faster rate than if used on intertowns or charters.

In raising this I don't mean to slag off at every school student accusing them as irresponsible bus users.   

ajw373

Quote from: Kramden on December 01, 2011, 10:18:17 AM
The main thing is: the reporter did not refer to them as 'artics'.  That's too much an 'in term' and any reporter worth his/her salt avoids such expressions in general news.  Reporters need to be aware of their audience's understanding of the message they're broadcasting.  A lot of people catch buses but in my experience they couldn't tell you the difference between a desto and a validator.

Actually they did, they called the Caterpillar articulated buses.

Kramden

Quote from: ajw373 on December 01, 2011, 06:20:08 PM
Actually they did, they called the Caterpillar articulated buses.

My point was about using the term 'artic'.  I think it's fine to say articulated for a broad audience.  Most people will understand what that is.  Artic however, sounds too much like 'arctic'.  Buses for icy roads!  As for Caterpillar, God only knows where the f*@k they got the Caterpillar reference. Maybe they had bus brands mixed up with a brand of earth moving vehicles.

Buzz Killington

I suspect caterpillar was the slang term the reporter has for the artics - I know I used to hear a lot of different terms for them as a kid ('bendy bus' being the most popular)

lukeo25

My sis calls them accordion buses?!

smitho

Common terminology used by the public is 'bendy buses'...or sometimes, 'flexibuses'.

Both are OK in getting the message across.

ajw373

Quote from: Buzz Killington on December 02, 2011, 09:30:09 PM
I suspect caterpillar was the slang term the reporter has for the artics - I know I used to hear a lot of different terms for them as a kid ('bendy bus' being the most popular)

As I said above he said they were "Caterpillar articulated buses", so I am 99% certain he was referring to brand. As for slang names I used to call them banana buses.